2c-e vs. LSD

I have to agree with you and not so much with GM's assessment; I find the eletrical sensation to be quite literal, not a euphamism to describe some other sensation. I don't get it so much in my eyes, but I know the sensation, LERVE it, and tend to get that feeling all throughout my body (and usually in waves). 2ct2 I've found actually produces this effect in a much, much more pronounced manner, and methylone + 2ce intensifies EVERYTHING about both drugs, including the eletrical jolt sensation.

 

Me too! Interesting... I tend toward non-vocal musique, instrumental stuff, and generally toward more electronic, synthetic, textured, ornate, moody tunes on 2ce, whereas with lsd I almost always go for more organic, heartfelt, lyrical, whimsical tunes.

 

Really? I've only done t2 once, at ~50mg, but I don't remember feeling the electricity during that trip. t2 didn't seem NEARLY as good for music appreciation either, as 2ce is.

Eggzakly! On LSD and tryptamines, I prefer the smooth and organic songs, many of which actually SOUND like smiles during the trip Some of those types of songs work for 2ce too, but not as well as the crazy shit works. lol

 

Agreed about musical enhancement with t2, it's not really the point of interest you focus on while tripping on t2. 2ct2 is far more "in your head" and worms away in your thoughts like you're living a dream... it's sort of similar to dpt IMO in that regard (or at least what few effects I've gotten from dpt). But yeah, I've done t2 enough times to know that both from experience to experience, of all the 2cx's it's probably the most variable, but also the most synesthetic/electrically charging.

The last 2ce trip I had I listened to The Brian Jonestown Massacre all night long, lol. I don't know that I'd want to listen to music as dark as theirs on lsd. Yesh, 2ce + the crazy shit vs. lsd/trypts + smooth organics purrrfectly fits! Except with dmt, that trypt is so in-your-face, instantaneous, and intense that I could give shit one if music is playing or not. Any drug that automatically thrusts you into a whole new realm equipped with not just sound distortion but with entire worlds of auditory hallucinations IMO is actually kinda hindered by music and deserves to be done in silence to fully appreciate the experience.

 

I listened to BRMC during my last 2ce trip, which, as you're aware, is a lot like The Brian Jonestown Massacre and they even share a member. Definitely perfect for 2ce

 

Shiiiiiit, Panda Bear is where it's at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTnBc_-QCXk"]YouTube - Panda Bear - Bros

 

Hellz yeah to both BRMC and to Panda Bear (or any BJM or Animal Collective related project/band for that matter)!!!

EDIT: Listening to BRMC's first album right now Fuckin' love 'Red Eyes & Tears', such a beautiful song!!! I think I'm gonna hafta listen to Animal Collective or Panda Bear next, hehe.

 

In the 50-75 mg range, 2C-E is about as much of a mindfuck as I have ever experienced (very infinity-based [very hard to explain]).


LSD, to me, is much more enjoyable, though. 2C-E can get dark... and I cannot even put my finger on where the darkness comes from.


I have "memories" of experiencing brief (I think) moments with the void on LSD (not quite like my mushroom experience, though). With 2C-E, I have been to a place, but was still conscious of "me," and it was not a void, just an awareness of the infinite (that sounds pretentious and maybe a tad douchey, but that's as best as I can explain).



I prefer LSD. Even when it is not an educational, introspective or existential experience, it is a ton of fun and an open experience. 2C-E lacks in that area.... but it sure does make music EPIC.

 

about the musical enhancement, on 2ce and even LSD i find that i like pretty much any music that i wouldn't dislike sober. but on 2cb or mushrooms, i'm a bit more picky. i find myself skipping songs a lot more often then

 

I agree with all of this. LSD is more enjoyable. 2ce takes me further at 50mg and up than LSD ever had though. Also, as I've said countless times, I LOVE the darkness and the edgy nature of 2ce.

 

2ct7 is electrical as well, I've only noticed 2ct2 eletrical via insuffalation but it was VERY electrical via that ROA, I was getting by far the strangest auditory hallucinations I've had from a PEA on insuffalated 2ct2. I also agree with you cosmo its probably the biggest pea mindfuck.

 

Maybe it's 'cause I'm kind of a "dark" person by nature (love sci-fi, horror movies, funhouses and haunted houses, Halloween's my fave holiday, wear a lot of black, am into esoteric and cultish/conspiracy theorist stuff like ufology, the Mayan calander, crop circles, ghosts, cryptozoology, am somewhat of a political radical e.g. somewhere between Socialist Democrat, Libertarian, and Collectivist and do attend rallies, marches, have a bunch of tats, some piercings, etc. etc. etc. so by nature too, I'm an outlier and know I stand out like a sore thumb so in turn I'm also a bit jaded by the way people treat me when they so much as just look at me... anyway...) but that "dark" aspect everyone talks about with regard to 2ce is one of the things that appeals to me most about it. I find that headspace quite enjoyable, not spooky or threatening whatsoever, and, every bit as enjoyable as the more "fun" kind of headspace Lucy puts you in. It's just different. Ever have a bad trip on Lucy? That can be one of THEE most dark places your brainz will EVER take you to. It's only happened to me once in twenty+ years, but it's something I'll never forget. I think that the selective nature of newer sikes like 2ce lend toward producing less erratic results than the once-in-a-blue-moon bad trip Lucy can illicit. Shrooms IMO have the greatest potential of any substance to produce bad trips, though. Writer put it quite well that shrooms take over your mind. I've figured out though that dosing high rather than dosing in the wading pool dosages with sikes and simply allowing yourself to surrender are the only ways to avoid bad trips. Also, having a sitter when doing really potent shit like dmt is kinda crucial; dmt in particular can and will be a much headier, much, much more intense mindfuck than 2ce could ever possibly present, even at the 50+mg range of 2ce; compared to a pea-sized ball of dmt freebase in a three toke go, 2ce (and even shrooms) don't even compare in mindfuckness. Word to the wise, porkstock, when you finally get around to smoking your dmt for the first time, make damned sure your fiancee is there with you and sober, that you're in a dimly lit room, no unexpected shit like phone calls, people stopping by, dinner on the stove, etc. are going to happen for at least 20 minutes, and take my advise, do it in a silent, peaceful setting. The first time is SOOO immensely jarring when you're thrust into hyperspace, it's unreal. My first time I had no idea what to expect, and after about toke three, suddenly my whole world was awash with a carnivalesque world of clowns, jugglers, circus acts of all sorts, and sounds of sheer madness and hysteria all bombarding my every sense from every direction all at once in a matter of seconds. It was cool and all, but I had no idea a sike could ever be that powerful (and I'm sure you're aware by now of how seasoned a tripper I am)! Even now, quite experienced enough with deem to smoke it alone, I still sometimes have a jarring, earth-shaking experience that borders on intimidating... it's like flirting with god, it's that kind of an awe-inspiring experience, that's why it's so freakish. It's not the analytical learning tool of Lucy, rather, it's an eye-opener to a whole new realm of reality that you only get glimpses of when in REM sleepstate, only fully lucid (or as much so as possible while on a sike) and wide awake throughout so very memorable. Trust me porkstock, if you want to have a good experience follow those guidelines for your first deem trip, and also don't skimp on the dose, you want full immersion so that you're not halfway between hyperspace and the here and now otherwise it can be a rather disorienting experience. I too wonder about what GB said, if you'll see dmt as a truly psychedelic experience because it's unlike anything you've ever done before, it is after all the Spirit Molecule. Speaking of dark, the 'orbs' or 'elves' or 'gnomes' that interact with you on it tend to taunt and prod at you, so it's got a "dark" element to it (and from my experience, more of one than dpt... but as you know dpt hasn't done shit to me as of yet). Nobody ever really talks about the "sinister" aspects of the "games" the "elves" play when in you're on *their* plane of existence! All the same, it's there and be forewarned!!! You just have to "play along and play by THEIR rules" while in hyperspace, and you shouldn't have a negative experience whatsoever. Fight it at all and you'll pay. I kind of freaked the time my friend and I smoked deem and both confirmed that--no shitting--we were exchanging thoughts telepathically and knew it because we talked about it after and realized we'd both experienced it and could recall the "conversation" we had... after that, though, I opened up a LOT more to deem and haven't freaked/fought it ever again. Surrendering is thee key! And as for "darkness" it's all a matter of perspective, I often find that 2ce is the most perfect thing to do when life's got ya down and you're in a funk. Talk about the world's most effective anti-depressant: Reveling in that "darkness" and comiserating with 2ce's effects when you're in a funk gets me laughing at life, turns my cynical ass up on end to a 'don't give a fuck!' attitude, gets me to just shrug off the small stuff, and it's all small stuff, helps confirm in my heart of hearts that old attage "and this too shall pass", and though 2ce can and does open your mind to the brutality of the Human Experience, it also does both of helping you attain a lovingly detached kind of view towards the injustices you are helpless and hopeless to overcome in your life/the world, as well as helping you laugh your arse off at the ridiculous nature of humanity's grand, grand lack of hubris, our lofty unattainable goals we all set, the insensible violent nature of our species, or another example, our retarded views on what it means to be sentient (like for me, we aren't trees or bacterium, so how can we truly know the intelligence of anything but our own personal selves, not even other people??? WE CAN'T!!! IMO trees are just as intelligent as humans, but express it and experience their sentience differently from humans since their senses and their modes of communication, their socialization, etc. are all 180 degrees different from that which we know).

I'd WHOLLY disagree that 2ce is a less valuable learning tool than Lucy or other traditional sikes. I find it equally enlightening, just in entirely different ways. I think to get the most out of it, again, it's all about dosing high, surrendering, and coming at 2ce from a different angle than you would if you'd just dosed Lucy. To the OP, while porkstock is right that 2ce and Lucy share in common that they're both psychedelic, that's about where IMO the similarities stop. At that point it's about like comparing BBQed tofu vs. a rare filet mignon. In the analogy, both are protein rich foods, but aside from that, they don't taste, look, feel, or in any way resemble one another. Likewise, 2ce and Lucy both make you trip/hallucinate, but in such different ways that there's really no comparison. 2ce is fairly predictable due to its selective nature, Lucy is typically kind to you, but can throw a curveball that the only 2cx I've had do that is t2, and not even close to the magnitude even with it as Lucy can throw your way. Go with the "darkness", let it guide you, become engulfed in it, take from it what it has to offer, don't fight, let yourself think about difficult things 'cause 2ce is highly conducive to allowing you to objectively/jadedly look at your issues and see the true scope of them without freaking out and IME to good end every time as I always, always work through at least some issues by trip's end, dose high, SURRENDER, and 2ce can and will be every bit the learning tool that Lucy is, just in an entirely different way
If you want a really wild experience to *TRULY* see how the two differ, take two or three hits of acid, and dose about 25-45mg of 2ce together. A lot of people who've never done it always speculate that their effects will clash, in reality, they mesh together and fuse in such a manner that you get a kind of yin/yang effect of dark/light (2ce/lsd) and what Writer said about 2ce's magnification of certain aspects of lsd is somewhat true, what with its selectivity, as is his analogy that lsd magnifies your thought processes. So together, you see things in the most objective and least subjective light possible, and that 2ce magnification effect is intensified more than doublefold when taken with lsd, which as noted already magnifies your mind/mind's eye... so together, the 2ce aids in honing in on those particular analytical aspects down to a fine science that people generally coin "dark", while simultaneously with Lucy's magic putting it all into proper perspective. Now 2cb + lsd is quite possibly the MOST blissful, forgiving, loving, warm, tender, womb-like, mentally orgasmic experience of ALL! IMO every sike is equally useful as a learning tool, even dmt's awe-inspiring "talking with god" scenerio... you've just gotta go with whatever you've ingested and its course of action, and adjust your attitude to fit the model of what educational value each sike has to offer :sultan:

Ohm!!! Hallelujah!!! Hare, Hare Krishna!!! Namaste amigas/amigos! :afro:

 

To summarize the answer to the question of this or that: It's all good. Different people experience somewhat different things. Tomorrow I'm headed into the woods for a day & night. :sunny:

 

thanks for the advice, but my fiance will NOT be there the first time i try DMT she's never read about it or anything, so she'll freak to see me leave my body pretty much... i'll get a buddy to sit for me. i'm definitely not gonna make the same mistake with DMT as i did with salvia by under-estimating its sheer power.

 

I tried to sneak a little bowl of DMT into the order of psyches i'm doing with my gf, since we skipped 2c-b and are going straight for LSD next week. I sandwiched 75mg between some damiana and sparked the bowl. Hit it once, damiana didn't catch yet. Hit it second time, damiana caught, tasted DMT, tree tops started swirling into infinite fractals, titanic "force" began filling everything, and I was overwhelmed with "No" "not here" "not now", and when I could speak again without worry that something would bitch slap me I put the pipe away and told her it was a really stupid mistake and that I had forgotten how strong DMT is. You don't casually smoke DMT. That would be like snorting DPT at a party. Lines of deep. lol.

I still haven't been able to successfully break through with this one, I just can't get the right set/setting, and when I think I do, I always put the pipe down after the second good hit when I don't know which direction is up and everything is getting way too intense way too fast. Grrr

 

^^so was she still a little curious to try it after she saw what it did to you, or was she scared away? probably just trusts you enough to take your advice.

i'm very excited and nervous to try DMT. i'm worried about getting my ass handed to me, because as much as i know i shouldn't, i always get the urge to try it out when i can't find any weed.

i thought about doing it today actually, since i'm not tripping mescaline, due to the weather, a social event, and my developing cold. the cold is what decided it for me, no way i wanna smoke harsh DMT for the first time while i have a sore throat and runny nose. bongs (of cannabis) on the other hand...

 

Good to hear you're taking my advise, having a sitter, a dimly lit focused, uninterupted set/setting, silence, and a peaceful state of mind are ALL crucial! Writer said it up there, you don't casually smoke deem, you fuckin' prepare for it! This, as you know, is coming from a hardhead. EVERYONE gets a *little* intimidated/chickenshit with dmt, well, 'cause hyperspace is not ANYTHING like "simple" Lucy/shroom ego dissolution, magnification of the analytical, hightened mood, synesthetic sensations... NO! Hyperspace is an entire realm that literally the only other time you experience it is during the stage of falling asleep where you're still half awake but drifting and you begin to have lucid dreams, you know? Well, during that phase of falling to sleep, entering REM sleepstate, the dmt in your brain is slowly released I've read. So that's dmt when fully awake: Entering that world of your memories and imagination and nightmares and fantasies and not just visualizing it, not just hearing it, but fucking LIVING IN IT for five to twenty minutes!

HAHA! I've totally had those moments on dmt, one morning I awoke and wanted to wake n' bake and use my new bong, so I was loading it, I noticed my bag of deem, I said, "What the fuck, this'll be wonderful!" I put some in, and then started toking... about five to six bong rips in, I suddenly said to myself just that, "NO, NO, NOT RIGHT NOW!!!" But I still had a half a bowl or more left, and didn't want to keep a stale bowl in there, so I decided to finish it, and what's strange is I didn't have a breakthrough in spite of how much used (about 12 rips) whereas I've had breakthroughs at 3-5 hits usually. I began picking myself apart and became SUPER rational and efficient, it was weird as fuck, hard, but worth it! You NEED to go to 3-5 tokes Writer, lol, that's why you freak 'cause you're dosing low! You either do deem or you don't, it's angsty with too little and as porkstock pictured it, it's like leaving your body when breaking through to hyperspace. I've also had those times where I end up deciding to do it during the wrong set/setting like your damiana experiment, and having some of the most jarring experiences ever, haha! I can take it, but I agree, it's no party drug, and I'm sure once I break through with dpt I'd agree you don't lines of that at a party. Being detached from reality in a group setting? Fuck that!

 

@Cosmo: Porkstock should be coaching you on salvia bro, A salvia breakthrough Is more intense trip or at least more unnerving than DMT man. But yah they are both on that other level.

 

More weirdness - I don't experience DMT as that harsh. I haven't smoked any in ~6 months because it got to be too scary in a non-specific indescribable way. But I am very glad of the previous however many times. Maybe I'll do it with a sitter who'll know to say, "It's okay" every 2 minutes (by his or her clock!).

"...don't know which direction is up don't know which direction is up" indeed; don't know where I end and the carpet starts. "I"?

 

@GB: I'm gonna get some of the 15x salvia, you got me re-interested in the stuff. So yeah, is salvia at breakthrough strength something you should be a little chickenshit about just like deem too? If so, all the more enticing!