9/11 Angst!!!

Did I ever ask for sympathy? Ever? Once? No, I wanted to know if there was anyone out there that wasn't so blinded by what happened that they couldn't see what else was happening to the world in its wake.
And I DO have sympathy for those who've lost someone (though I'm sure many people will not believe me, because I'm just looking for attention, right?), but do you really think it's conducive to their mental health to keep dredging up the same pain constantly?? I know if my mom died or my boyfriend died or my aunt died, I'd be losing my marbles- it's not like I've never experienced a death in the family- but I wouldn't want to hear about it every five seconds for the rest of my life. I feel sorry for those that do.

 

some may feel that way, but I know I am proud as hell everytime someone talks about my grandpa or dad or even my uncle being good men (all deceased)

it's not like people are just going "haha, your son died in the World Trade Center!"
they are showing respect the family's loss
and in many cases also showing respect for the courage of heroes that died on that day

and I do see it kinda fucked up making money off of it (via the movie) but I also see it as immortalizing the event, and such

 

the reason I have a problem with is is this: (and i'm sure my ass is about to get railed for it) Our government KNEW the effect 9/11 would have on this country..it would send all the people into this frightened/super patriotic state..and they knew that this would last a long time..well...i don't know if any of yall have seen a movie called "Loose Change" but it's pretty much a documentary full of factual evidence (not just conspiracy theories) but actual evidence you can look at, that says that the United States was behind 9/11...that our fucked up government PLANNED it because they knew the wealth and the POWER it would bring them...so, when they've come out with a new WTC penny that costs i believe 39.99 and only 5$ is giong to 9/11 charities, i do NOT support it, because the government has control of all that other money...just the way they planned it!!!! and PLEASE check out Loose Change..it doesn't downplay all the lives that were lost, and neither am I, but it's just kinda hard to give that money or power to the government when they were probably behind it all!

 

Sounds like that's for the best.

There's always an excuse. 'People with integrity do what they say they are going to do. Others have excuses.~Laura Schlessinger'. Do you do anything in your OWN town to stand up for your actions besides complain? My guess is no. If you don't like the Red, White and Blue, you're in the wrong place, honey. You can be proud of your country....and not of it's leaders. YOU are the one being narrow minded. Americans perceive their lives as gold, that's what makes them such. Foreign people aren't any better or worse than American people. I don't feel that way, and I'm PROUD TO BE AMERICAN.
You don't make yourself heard, that's your problem. You're on HERE bitching instead of trying to do something about it in your town. Don't complain about a small, country, backhill town....I live in one, and you can do things to stand up for what you believe. If you don't do so, that's your problem. Don't blame the people or surroundings, blame yourself.
If you can't come up with your own ideas on how to get your message out....give up. You must be creative and enthusiastic or just give up. I wouldn't listen to someone who can't use his or her own ideas.

I like hearing about them. They're history. Part of what NEEDS TO BE TALKED ABOUT.
Do you want those people to be forgotten?
If it hurts you so bad, don't look. No one is forcing you. You act like everyone is out to get YOU by making a memorial type video or documentary. The world isn't all about you.
You can understand Columbine....but not 9/11? Sure....show the high schoolers with holes in their bodies, but don't show me thousands of Americans killed in an attack on this country. Riiiiiight....
Shell-shock....do you talk just to hear your own voice?

You'd rather people be unpatriotic?

Since when is making a movie vengeance?
Being as you talked about dead going to a 'better place', I'm going to assume you're Christian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_eye_for_an_eye Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. Learn it, live it, love it.

 

My girlfriend at the time was so upset by 9/11 she let me give her anal for the first time. She wanted to do something to get it out of her mind.... So 9/11 was a good day for me.

 

moonflower, in all the passion-driven statements you're puttin out ..you seem to be overlookin the points bein made about the concept of HUMANITY over "patriotism" !

 

I'd rather people be informed than patriotic for the wrong reasons.

 

.

 

here's somethin you may want to ponder about ..

PATRIOTISM: The primary implication of patriotism in ethics is that a person has more moral duties to fellow members of the national community, than to non-members. In social science terminology, this doctrine is a form of discrimination. Criticism of patriotism in ethics is mainly directed at this moral preference: the view (in ethics) that moral duties apply equally to all humans is known as cosmopolitanism. In practice, many patriots would see treason rather than cosmopolitanism as the 'opposite of patriotism'

COSMOPOLITANISM: meaning citizen of the world; is the idea that all of humanity belongs to a single moral community

 

Somehow, I had a feeling you'd say something like that. If I'm just the gum on the bottom of your shoe, why don't you just scrape me off and ignore me?

Honestly, at this stage in my life, and in a town the size of a postage stamp, I would be run out of town, and I'm not ready to give up my education just yet for people that aren't going to listen to me. I will be moving, though, in a bout a month to a town that is slightly larger and more accepting. All I can really do here is talk and hope someone has heard me, but mostly all I get is ignored. I don't run around spouting off to people like this that "9/11 pisses me off!" or some shit. I said that here, because I thought someone would hear me out, but I guess I should have known that criticizing something so sensitive wouldn't be welcome anywhere. Maybe in 50 years people will be able to hear this kind of stuff without puffing up like turkeys, but I guess it's too soon.

Do YOU forget something like that if it isn't shouted at you every five seconds?? I know I will never forget it, and I only saw it on TV (over and over and over and over). I thank my lucky stars that no one in my family was affected. When I said I WANT to forget, I didn't mean forever. I meant that I want to be able to stop thinking about it for a few hours, without it always hovering in the background. It's just not healthy! There is a TIME and a PLACE for everything.
I'm not saying cover it up. I never said cover it up. Put it in the history books. Have a memorial on its anniversary, but don't make it just another patriotic 'theme' to be dragged out whenever we need a cause to rally to.
And I'm not saying they're out to get me by making a movie, but it is difficult to get away from when the entire family is in the livingroom with their eyes glued to the screen, and if I'm not out watching it with them and enjoying every second of it, all I hear is, "What's the matter with you??" I tell them I'm sick of crying and I don't want to and it's like I've stuck a knife in their backs. Tell me there's no pressure there.
The point I was trying to make about Columbine vs. 9/11 was that showing us the Columbine event would help prevent it. Showing us the 9/11 attack would just get us stirred up and put us through more pain than is necessary. We can't do anything about 9/11 but sit here and cry and get pissed off. Another Columbine can be prevented by US, the citizens. The government is supposedly responsible for preventing another 9/11, if they can at all.
Shell shock... oh, I'm sorry... Post-Traumatic-Stress-Disorder. Better?
Studies have shown that seeing this stuff over and over and over can lead to PTSD and Depression. It's the people that eat, sleep, and breathe the stuff, 85% of the population around here, that I really worry about.

Blind patriotism is a scary thing. You don't just say, 'Oh, they know best. I'd best just support them and shit on everyone who doesn't.' I'd rather they be unpatriotic than following the cause because they don't know any better or because they don't want to see the faults of the government.

It isn't. It inspires vengeance. I explained this.

Never.
Right, just because I'm Christian, I follow everything in the Bible to a T. The Bible also says it's perfectly acceptable to beat, and under some circumstances, kill your wife. Do you think I accept that as law? I accept very few things in the Bible. It was written by people (namely male prophets), and their influence is apparent. I can believe in God and still pass his course without studying his book for the final...

 

That first definition makes it sound kind of like a Frat or a country club.
The second one, I like.

 

Saw the commercial for the coin today. Not happy. $5? They're all heart...
I've heard about a conspiracy as well. Mind-blowing. I can only hope our government wouldn't sink so low...

 

Point and match. Good show.
Seriously, not sarcasm. I get you.

 

Because I love the argument.

Lots of people get ignored....they don't shut up. One person hearing is better than none. No?
Of course you say it here....too bad not everyone is perfect and accepting of your comments as you'd like. I'm still gonna stick to my guns on this one.
Yes....you're so far advanced. No one gets you.

No....I wouldn't forget it. I wouldn't forget it even without the programs.
Then go to bed....or are you dreams overrun with 911 images too? Must be tough.
There is a time and a place....and that time and place is on whatever channel or whatever book cover at whatever time you see it.

It was huge for America as a whole. Of course it's going to be around for rallies at any given point and time. It's what rally goers do....rally.

There isn't. Move out....Get your OWN television. Go outside. My mother complains....that doesn't put pressure on me. I take it with a grain of salt. Stop making the excuse for it.

There were plenty of cases after programs of Columbine. That didn't change anything. If a pissed off kid with a gun decides to blow the head off of someones shoulders....(s)he'll do it.
Showing Columbine programs sure didn't cause any tears, I'm sure.
People can't do anything about the Columbine situation but sit and cry.

Don't go around those 85% if you're so damned worried one of them might go insane and lose it on you.
Stop worrying so much about what everyone else is doing and worry more about yourself. I'm sure that's just as 'stressful' as looking at those horrible documentaries on death.

I don't say I agree with the government. I'm just proud to be an American. I believe I've said either in this thread or a different one, you can love America and hate the government.
I would shit on your opinion anyway. That doesn't mean you don't have the right to it. But, if I don't agree with you....and you put it out there in a thread....I have every right to express just how against it I am.
I don't follow because I don't know any better. I do know better. I just choose that I love this country and if someone wants to make a fricken movie....let them. If you don't like it....don't watch it.

TRUE Christians use the Bible as a guideline for life. Of course....those are hard to find nowdays too.
I suppose that if you're going to believe in something you may as well do it all the way.
I don't believe in God or that hocus pocus....but I do believe and eye for an eye.
I'm sure you can pass the course....but it's the using the book for the final that gets 'em in the end. I guess you'll see on your glorious judgement day just how right you are. But, that's neither here nor there.

 

Because that is so what I meant. I said this isn't the time because people are too sore at the terrorists to possibly see anything else. It dominates everything. The terrorist, the terrorists, the terrorists. I'm sorry, but we have terrorism within the country that should be dealt with as well, but omigod someone from another country! How dare they! That's our job to terrorize our people!
But I'm straying from the point: It's too soon for most people to think of anything else but "justice". I guess I should have waited 50 years for the dust to settle into fossilization before saying anything against 9/11. But just for the record, I know I'm not the only one who has issues with the constant reminders and their effects on people.

Then you agree that constant reminders aren't necessary?

And it works perfectly.... to drive up ratings and sell books.

I understand that it was a major disaster that will scar people for decades, but I'm sick of people USING it all the time, capitalizing on it, saying it in itself is a reason to support the war, support the government beause they handled it SO well, etc. We should be helping these people heal, not dredging up horrible memories to support unworthy causes such as these.
Oh, and I forgot it wasn't cool to care about what your family thinks about you. My bad. I'll just go out and get that lime green mohawk I've always wanted. That'll piss Mom off and I'll be cool again...

Wrong. People can do things about Columbine within the country. They can take time out to talk to the quiet, weird kid, stop the bully from picking on the little kid, teach diversity instead of supporting cliques. Just because we can't prevent every single shooting doesn't mean we can't have an impact.
Think about it. What can we the citizens do about 9/11?

Damn it, I did it again. I keep letting that "I give a shit about peoples' feelings" thing get in the way of my arguments. Sorry about that. I'll try to curb it.
Horrible. Yes, that's the word I would use to describe watching someone jump off of a building to their death, the camera following them from jump to pavement. I wasn't prepared for that or I would not have watched. WHAT purpose could that have POSSIBLY served?? That and the 911 Emergency calls that they keep finding and releasing more and more to the public... I don't see the point other than to get emotions running high.

Dude(tte), do your thing. I'm not telling you not to be patriotic. I admit openly that I'm a pretty shitty American, because I have very little feeling for this country, other than gratefulness that we don't have a secret police that drags mouthy people like me away when they say something off-color, amiright? I'm glad you have something to stand up for. It's better than nothing, and better than most things.
I'm not trying to boycott the movies or documentaries. All I said was that I was sick of them coming out every 6 minutes and the riled up responses they caused. I'm tired of hurting, so I don't watch them, then, I get to contend with getting shit on when I don't rally behind the stars and stripes when they want to go after every single country that practices terrorism.

Ha! Hahahahahahahaha...
I'm not a true Christian. Oh how you've stung me.

You believe in eye for an eye? So what happens if someone is killed? Well, that person is my sister! I'm going to kill Fred for killing my sister! But wait, Fred has a brother named George. He's going to kill me for killing Fred! But my brother Joey saw it all and is going to kill George to avenge my death. Then George's mother gets pissed off because Joey killed George and she kills Joey. It will go on forever.
Eye for an eye is counterproductive and hypocritical. It's like saying don't do this, because it's wrong, but if you do, I'll gladly do it back. Ultimately you become what you hate.

Boy, these are getting long-winded...

 

When I watched the towers come down and the Pentagon attacked, I was shocked at first, then I thought if we all band together and show the world that we aren't going to do what we did during world war II to the Japanese...we can show them that this is a better way of life.

But GW had something else up his sleeve and the rednecks jumped on the bandwagon. And what have we accomplished with our get tough "smoke em out", dead or a live attitude"? And now the world is dealing with a John Wayne macho attitude, which isn't what a lot of us American's feel.

I put this together that day. I believed it then I believe it now:

http://www.tco.net/~phacker/scooter/tragedy.html

 

that was nice

 

Maybe it was too nice. I wanted the US to band together. But in such a way that we said to the rest of the world we value everyone, and that's what makes us great, and a force to be reckoned with.

Instead might and military force seems to be the only factor that really counts today.

 

I disagree

count every person in the world that wants to wage war, and count everyone that would prefer we stay out of each other's shit


we out number the war mongrels 1,000 to 1

 

Ah, some folks just like to bitch when they read something that gets 'em fired up. And the loudest bitchers are the eye for an eye guys. The ones who don't get it. 9-11 went just like a thriller or a good soap opera. You could predict just about everything that happened afterwords. And it definately separated the men from the boys... Don't even believe that another country did it, 'cause our sick government had too much to gain by having it happen. Hell, no wonder they keep running the plot into the ground. It was an impressive piece of work and it was obvious that it had to be turned into lots of film footage. They're proud of their work! First day it happened I said "wonder how long it'll take for them to get the movie out..."

The typical US citizen is pretty much lacking in anything more than a soap opera mentality. So don't expect much actual THOUGHT. I saw it on the news so it must be true.... Right?

And I wonder just what people mean by saying they are "patriotic" and "proud to be an American". Why, exactly? What makes this particular piece of real estate so much better than the rest? What makes a person so damn special for just happening to be born here as opposed to, say, Iraq. Don't you guys realize that other people from other countries are equally proud? I don't feel particularly proud of having been born in this country or living here. Why should I? I'm not at all proud of most of the human race. Boundary lines are a human creation. It's all about being competative, us versus them. It's like a damn basket ball game for petes sake!
I can be proud of myself for not completely falling victim to the barbary. I can feel good for being able to be alive and have this life adventure. But what is all this patriotic American B.S.? I can't even say I am proud to live on planet Earth. I just happen to be here, I didn't have to work at it, or create anything, or fight, or whatever, so what is to be proud of, exactly? I might be proud of having big boobs, or knowing how to sew, or proud of my kid who gets an A in school. But proud to be an American? Who the hell do we think we are? Gods? Well, there is a little bit of god in everyone. Not just us Americans, but everyone.

Yea, there are a few of us out there in cyber land. We actually DO see some things that lots of folks don't. It's a hard place to be, 'cause the ostriches have their heads firmly burried. So the few of us sort of feel like a man without a country... So, it gives me some hope every time I find another one who ain't afraid to say what they see. Even if it's unpopular, which is inevitable. Even if folks get so upset over it that they have to make asses out of themselves trying to belittle what you say. I personally get a good laugh out of these guys who will literally turn themselves inside out trying to put down the ideas of those of us who take "the road less travelled by". What are they afraid of that they have to protest so hard?

And quoting the bible means nothing at all. You can find just about anything in there to use as ammo for just about any opinion. I was married to an asshole who used bible passages to justify his verbal and physical abuse...

So, if ya don't like something, Never be afraid to say so. Because even tho you might not get the best reception, at least you got their attention on some level...