A Conclusion On What Acid Does To Your Mind

from what you are saying i could never be a better person then i am today. if there is no right and wrong and there is no such thing as wisdom then why live? life is about learning and growing, life is about knowing the difference between right and wrong. a person who is not learning and growing is not living (they may be existing but they are not living). if there is no way that i can be a better person tomorrow than i am today then why bother.

a person who used to cheat on their girl friends or wife would be a better person if they learned why they are only hurting themselves in the long run.

there is nothing wrong with people who live to better themselves and realize that in doing so they are so much better off then the rest of the world. actually people who would argue that there is no way you can be a better person than your old self or someone else are truly lost. i am a better person than someone who rapes little girls and there is nothing egotistical about that. there is something VERY wrong with people who think it is only a matter of opinion and that i am no better than anyone else. like i said before - these people are sociopaths and it is no wonder that people don't trust people like that. i feel safe when i know that my friends understand the difference between right and wrong. i, like most people will distance myself from people who think that right and wrong is just a matter of opinion.

 

Actually, that is called common sense and realtes to the neaural network of the phsyical human mind which is regulated by the release of a chemical called dopamine. Learning how to improve one's behaviour in order to progress in fasion of life one desires is still subjective opinion. I dont see a point in getting into an argument about karma and dharma because while the two are most definitley the creative and the receptive, the spirit and mother nature, the yin and the yang, you have an idea of a moral code that you have come to create for yourself to which you apply the foreign term karma, and my idea of it is a bit a different. The ideas are at the base level founded on the same principle, but the amount of control of reality we each apply to it in our definitions has a vast difference. But I recall that you are not fond of Vedic literature from which the term karma was initially uttered so the discussion is basically useless other than that even direct knowledge of something like karma is the same as direct knowledge of God, while you and I may know it objectively because we have transcended thought and collective consciousness all together to come at this conclusion, not everyone has, and their opinion about us being wrong is just as valid as ours about them being wrong, when put into thought and shared via action or words, it becomes opinion.

 

Thank you for your opinion detailing the point of life. It seems that the question that has mystified mankind for thousands and thousands of years has just been answered by you man. Oh, no wait a second, that is an opinion as well!
3xi from what I am saying has nothing to do with wether or not you could be a better person today in your own eyes. YOU decide what you want to believe and you can judge from your past behaviour what kind of person you are. But this is still your opinion and not everything thinks you are a good person, this is reality. I think your an ok guy but what does that even matter? What would it matter if I hated you? Would my saying that you are a horrible person make it true? No, that would be my opinion, just the same as yours about how you are a good person.

 

no, you would be wrong. no doubt about it. if you think that i am wrong for thinking that you would be wrong for thinking i am a horrible person then once again you would be wrong. your opinion is wrong.

i am happy to hear you think i am an ok guy.

although i enjoy our little debates and i wish you the best in life i would never trust someone with your outlook on life. i send you love with all my heart but i would never trust you as a friend in real life - not with that attitude.

please i mean no offence. thats just the way i am. and i am sure i am not the only one.

 

namaste and hari om.

 

i spent a large portion of my life trying to figure out whats wrong, it was not fun

and of course wisdom exists. I guess I would say its anything that is channeled from a still state of mind. Of course theres many levels to that but all it needs to be is one level above you in order to be wisdom.

 

i'm guessing that you're assuming that if someone were to fall into the hole, they would either be in a lot of pain, or they would die. and that pain and death are "bad" and should always try to be avoided. but none of us can really understand death or know for certain what happens when we die. we can only believe, based on our experiences. no matter what experiences a person may have had, it's impossible to say it will be the same for anyone else. if we make judgments about whether an action is right or wrong based on the outcome, we have to judge each possible outcome as either good or bad. but still, that judgment is just an opinion.

i think the most loving thing to do would to tell your friends what you knew and allow them to make their own decisions (you never know, one may willingly jump). but if you didn't, i don't think you'd have done anything wrong.

karma is not "do something bad, have something bad happen to you". it's just cause and effect. and it's impossible for us to tell how far the effects of our actions reach. the things we judge as horrible and unforgiveable may karmically cause the things we judge as beautiful and sacred. we just have no way of knowing.

i'm not trying to say it's okay to excuse hurtful behavior by saying "oh, it's just the person's karma", even if it is. that's where dharma comes in. if there is pain, i believe it's the right thing to do to try to stop it. even though ultimately i don't believe in right or wrong, it's impossible to act at all without boundaries. but i think blind judgment based on a system of absolute rights and wrongs is only a short term solution which causes way more problems than it solves.

if someone rapes or kills or does something horrible to someone you love, of course you'll want to respond to that. but when we divide things into categories of either right or wrong, what we're really doing is seperating the universe into two... us and them. that which you claim as a part of yourself, and that which you deny and won't allow to exist as a part of your reality. you can stop suffering without judging anyone involved. it's not a question of, "was that action right or wrong?", it's a question of, "what exactly is going on, and which way could i react to that which feels most true to me?" i honestly believe that if we all ask ourselves that question in the face of every situation, the answer will always be love, even if we cannot see the love in another's actions.

mara, you wrote about gandhi. would you say gandhi was lazy? here are a few quotes from him that i don't think i need to explain, but i think it's obvious by the life he lived that he was not someone who would condemn any person for their actions... but still, somehow, he managed to fix what he viewed as flaws in perspective, as opposed to "fixing" wrong people, and caused real change in the world.

"Before the throne of the Almighty, man will be judged not by his acts but by his intentions. For God alone reads our hearts."

"Constant development is the law of life, and a man who always tries to maintain his dogmas in order to appear consistent drives himself into a false position."

"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth."

"Faith... must be enforced by reason... when faith becomes blind it dies."

"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent."

"It is easy enough to be friendly to one's friends. But to befriend the one who regards himself as your enemy is the quintessence of true religion. The other is mere business."

"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err."

"Nearly everything you do is of no importance, but it is important that you do it."

 

so jesus was a sociopath

who knew??

 

what?????????????????????? did jesus not make judgements? did he not topple tables at a church market because he felt that trade in a holy place was "wrong"? he did exactly that. he felt the religious authority was wrong for banning good works on the sabbath and he defied that law--jesus made all sorts of judgements--and its a good thing he did!

oh, and i never called ghandi lazy...i used him as the example of the opposite of that...he was one man who realized british rule was "wrong" and he stood up to stop the slavery.

 

but... its fun to play with thought-trons
I dont know what else to do with them, I mean what if theres still ways or loopholes to put them into use in lower levels that haven't been fully tested.

 

but he had really good taste
so it wasn't sociopath, it was just awesome
he also put the well-being of others before himself, that was a pretty big part of it
which is also just part of the good taste thing
I guess you could say... jesus did it right, sociopaths did it wrong
but even with that jesus was still on a higher level than sociopaths

 

ghandi

there is no way everyone in india just accepted british rule. there were people against it. they were just waiting for a leader.

and i dont think society ever ever accepted slavery as a whole.
especially the slaves...

 

this 3xi....this is it right here. this is what you always do that drives me crazy.
- deep down you agree with me-
- you dont understand what you are saying-

do you not see the INCREDIBLE arrogance in these statements? you understand my foolishness and simple mind so well, that you know deep down i actually think exactly like you do and i am just saying things i dont even understand because I am a blabbering idiot that needs your guidance.

insane.....

 

LOL

The entertainment this thread has brought into my life has been epic, EPIC I tell you!!!

 

exactly! they waited for a leader--no one had the balls to be the leader themselves UNTIL ghandi.

 

Wrong and right are both human constructs.

There is no absolute truth. The word truth only existed when humans came into being on the Earth. Therefore neither one of you can be right. Significance, or truth, only has subjective meaning, what's right to you guys probably isnt right or even in the same ballpark as most peoples perception on truth, so let's agree to disagree and stick with the talk about LSD.

 

you can disagree with something without saying that it is intrinsically wrong under any circumstance. you can have opinions and live an active life without judging people or their actions, believing you know better than others what is ultimately and eternally true and anything outside of that must be wrong.
of course, whether jesus did this or not depends on your interpretation of christianity as a whole. i don't want to get into that. but i think the most powerful message of christianity is christ's unconditional love for everyone, even those who crucified him. what is the meaning of the crucifiction if christ resented those who disagreed so completely with him? he had the power to stop it at any time, but (i believe) that was not what he was about. all christ did was love.

there is a difference between an opinion, or even a firmly held belief, and the declaration that you know the absolute truth and anyone who disagrees with you is absolutely wrong and does not even deserve for their belief to be considered. you can disagree with someone else's point of view without writing it off entirely as simply "wrong". you can accept the differences between people instead of denying them. you can even say that what you believe is the absolute truth... but realize that someone disagreeing is not automatically wrong. there is room for paradox. a person's belief is what is most sacred to them, and to outright deny it's validity is one of the least loving things a person can do. (i realize that what i am doing right now could be construed as denying your own beliefs, but i hope you don't take it that way... i'm just trying to explain how i feel, and i realize that we could discuss this for forever and neither of us may ever really see things from the other's point of view. hopefully this is just an exercise in intellectually testing our own beliefs for each of us, and not taken to be confrontational in any way, and i sincerely hope no one feels that i am attacking them.)

i think it comes down to realizing that whatever any of us say or do, if you go deep enough into it, it is all really the same exact thing, but we can't force sameness, we just have to be able to see the oneness in the seperateness. like the U2 song says, "we are one, but we're not the same. we get to carry eachother."

i think you might be missing my point. i didn't say you called gandhi lazy. i was asking you whether you thought he was, because you said that you thought people who saw that there is no absolute right and wrong were lazy, and gandhi was such a person. he did not say, "i am against _____ because it is wrong and i am right". he did what he thought was most loving, without judgment.

i think i need to make more of a distinction... because we don't have enough words in this language to describe everything, and i understand how it can get confusing. when i say, i don't believe in right or wrong, i mean that i don't believe in ideas like "it is wrong to kill", or "it is wrong to say certain words, think certain thoughts, do certain things". i believe that "rightness" is a living thing, and applies to each situation differently. i don't believe that anything anyone can ever do, ultimately, carries some intrinsic moral weight to it. ultimately, wrong and right are meaningless. BUT, they are tools that we must use to attain specific results. if you want to make a cake, yes, you'll have to say that of all the possible ingredients, well... koala fur would be "wrong". how do you bake it? well, putting it in a pillowcase is "wrong". maybe this is a silly example, but i hope you see the distinction.

you can look at a situation, know the outcome you want to create, and find the most harmonious way of achieving it, without ever condemning or judging anything. and actually, it's easiest to achieve the results you want, if you see your opposition as yourself, as something that you are connected to and unified with on a deep level, instead of seeing it as something seperate and alien and evil. if you don't, it's very easy to let the simple desire to be right as opposed to wrong override everything else. but if right and wrong never come into question, and the only question is, how can i act out of love?, it is literally impossible to "go wrong".

personally, that is all i am trying to do here... whether or not i've been successful, i don't know, but all i can do is try.

 

Are you telling me that certain tribal people in the rain forests of the world are evil for the way they treat women (as third class citizens)?

Who are you to judge others and instill your own moral code on them? We live in a complex universe that is almost impossible to comprehend, and you are telling me you know what's right for EVERYONE?

Sorry, but I don't buy it. I know what's right and wrong for me, and I suspect it's similar to your own moral code, but I don't judge those of a different upbringing.

Everything and everyone has its place in this world, and I don't think it's our place to cast judgment on other cultures from afar, labeling them evil. I know what I need to do and you know what you need to do, but aside from that we are blind in a way as to what the rest of the world needs to do.

I mean we may be close with our ideas of morality and justice, but we don't know with certainty what anyone else should be doing. We can only control our own bodies.

All we can do is lead by example, by following our own visions of divinity and beauty. That's it. As for the rest of the world, who's to say what's right for others. As I said, we all play our part. If every wolf became a sheep, what would happen to this planet?

 

you say things in such simpler words than i am able to