A D D marijuana perception conundrum

I agree caffeine is a drug. you can get panic attacks on it, just like if you smoke a lot of weed.

 

In my opinion I wouldn't worry about whether or not you can concentrate on math in school. I have zero math skills, period. Reading and writing are the most important. Even in economics, reading and writing skills are ten times more important than your math skills. What's more important than math is auto mechanics, which should be required. We would have much less air pollution if we all knew how to keep our cars properly tuned and running at the highest gas mileage possible.

It's best to find what skills one is good at and then find teachers and mentors in those areas. Back in the 1960's when they still had industrial arts education, one could train for blue collar occupations in high school. Today the education has deteriorated into a system of memorizing everything and performing left brained multiple choice tests. People learn best by observation, not by memorization. I don't remember anything I memorized in high school, but I certainly remember observing teachers and fellow classmates.

 

My strengths are in writing and reading as well. I am thinking of writing books with all my ideas and music. I am strong in these, I love them and all I do is think and contemplate all day so might as well put the world in my head to reality...

I believe it's a matter of training my brain to focus. You learn to walk , talk, read, write, exc.. well at some point you have to learn to focus and other higher functions.

 

I'm the same way. It feels like my mind makes excuses to not pay attention to what I really should and I end up spacing out or doing something else. When I smoke though, I'm in the moment, and my academics definitely improve.

 

yeah. i defintantely noticed that high and good grades go together!

 

Best Thread Ever

 

I'm new to this forum and do no use drugs (have severe allergies). I have never heard of people self medicating for ADD types of issues. Although I drink about 10+ cups of coffee a morning so we have the same issues.

This makes me wonder if the school system is geared more towards LEFT brained work - such as memorizing and math -

versus RIGHT brained work - like art and music - that all of us creative types are better at.:sunny:

I mean, things like writing, debate, speech, art, architecture, music ... these are all RIGHT brained activities that are often cut back due to budget cuts.

Do you folks who self-medicating have to do this for the left brain crap (math and science), or the RIGHT brain stuff (art and music) ???

This makes me wonder if the so called drug war is really unnecessary - maybe the schools could start teaching Vocational Education, Art, and Music again for us "misfits" to fit in??? :2thumbsup:

 

When i used to smoke Cannabis, I loved to study on it. I am a math grad student, and have since stopped smoking since i entered grad school, but, as an undergrad, I found that the abstractions in higher-level mathematics presented themselves much clearer when high. I have been labeled as having ADD, but my primary mental disturbance is Schizoaffective Disorder, so the ADd is pretty minor in comparison.

 

Oversimplifying mathematics as a rigid left-brained activity is naive. Take an advanced course in Abstract algebra or Vector Spaces and try to convince yourself that there is no beauty and creative passion in mathematics. Perhaps Calculus and Elementary Algebra are like what you said, but not most of mathematics.

 

1. Do you think that the effects of pot that you've experienced are due to its acting as a DA (Dopaminergic) agonist? Or, some other mechanism ?

2. How about MAOI's - (monoamine oxidase inhibitors) that stop the degradation of NE, DA - to their metabolites (i.e. HVA).

3. L-Tyrosine??? It's a precursor to one or more of the monoamines and is used to detoxify drug users in clinics (among other methods such as L-Taurine and Niacin).

4. I hated math from 6th to 12th grades and again in college but have not taken courses in the other areas you mention. Yes I can understand that mathematicians are creative since they developed complex equations in the 1st place.

 

Cannabinoids are not direct dopamine agonists nor dopamine reuptake inhibitors. They work by agonizing the CB1 receptor, which in turn acts to inhibit GABA in the central areas of the brain, including the cerebellum, leading to memory and linear thought disruption. However it also inhibits GABA in the nucleus Accumbens, which in turn, releases dopamine in that region, which, down the road, increases dopamine in the cortex. So, possibly, this combination of non-linear thinking with an indirect enhancement of dopamine in the cortex, would explain it's effect on ADD symptoms.

As for MAOIs. Yes. They potently increase dopamine, norepinephrine, and other catecholamines in the brain and body, so, yes, indirect potentiation of dopamine occurs.

I hope this helps.

 

Thanks ....... However by inhibiting GABA, wouldn't it increase Glutamate, potentially leading to NMDA receptor neurotoxicity, nitric oxide production, and increased production of Oxidized Cathecholamines (Dopachrome, Adrenochrome, etc.) - especially in those deficient in Glutathione Peroxidase (GSPX) ???

Since defecient genes for GSPX are genetic, could this explain why some are unable to tolerate marijuana (myself included) - along with other drugs that effect that NMDAr's and glutamate?

Whereas Nicotine protects NMDA receptors, by way of acting on the various subunits of NACHr receptor. This potentates BOTH GABA, NE, Serotonin, and Glutamate release including in the (Nucleus Accumbens).

Caffeine potentiates Dopamine and norepinephrine. I cannot tolerate marijuana, and cannot function WITHOUT at least 10 cups of coffee a day. Does Caffeine directly or indirectly release DA and NE in the nucleus accumbens ?

Also, any NMDA receptor antagonist like Dextromethorphan in cough syrup will decrease Histamine, and that will increase Dopamine. Histamine is already very low in those of us with seasonal affective disorder, in the northern latitudes without adequate sun exposure.

Any thoughts ? Do I have a Neurobiological Diagnosis ?:sunny:

 

I do not self medicate. My ADD meds are prescribed. I have smoked weed for most of my life because I enjoy it. I just happened to have noticed that when I smoke and do not take my meds I am just as focused as when I do take them. Without anything I am a mess and cannot focus and have no motivation or drive.

The doctors tried many medications (so many I lost count) and nothing worked. They refused for a long time to admit I have adult ADD but finally decided to try an ADD medication to see if it would work since everything else failed. From the first day on the ADD meds I felt like a new person and had my focus, motivation and drive back. I smoked a lot more weed in my younger years which I think masked my symptoms and therefore was not diagnosed at an earlier age. One of the main reasons all my doctors refused to believe I had ADD was that if I wasn't diagnosed with it as a child then I could not have it as an adult.

Oh and as far as schooling and education goes...I am a college graduate and for close to 27 years have been a computer network specialist in network security with multiple certifications. Guess all those years of smoking weed didn't hurt me too much!!

 

I don't know if what you are talking about would have to do with your being able to tolerate marijuana....but if you physically cannot function without 10 cups of coffee a day I would say that there is some kind of chemical imbalance or physiological condition happening or some type of deficiency that you might want to see a doctor about.

 

THC agonizes the CB1 receptors, which, in turn, act to inhibit the primary neurotransmitter used by the neuron upon which they are planted upon. Thus, we need to look at the distribution of the CB1 receptors in the brain to see what specific neurons are affected. The majority are in the cerebellum, the nucleus accumbens, and some of the dendritic spines projecting to the cortex.

Thus, neurotoxicity is not an issue, because CB1 only inhibits GABA transmission on the neurons in those specific areas AND only on the neurons that even transmit GABA within those areas. For example, in the NucAcc, inhibiting GABA does not release Glutamate, instead, it releases Dopamine. So no toxicity there. The only place where GABA inhibition leads to glutamate excitation is in the dendritic spines to the cortex. And since not all of these neurons are GABAergic, the issue of neurotoxicity is nil. I hope that helps.

Basically, know that cannabinoids are NOT GABA antagonists. They, similar to the opioid peptides, work by inhibiting the flow of WHATEVER neurotransmitter the base neuron they are planted on is. It is only in certain areas that the GABA transmitter is the culprit.

As for caffeine, the situation is more subtle since it mainly works on the Adenosine Type I receptor, which simply signals the brain to regulate one's 'awake-ness'. Thus, an overflow of catecholamines is unlikely, as it is a modulating receptor, not an infinitely increasable agonist site. The potentiation of DA and NET is very low compared to the amphetamines since it acts in such an indirect manner.

Good to hear someone with some knowledge of the wonders of the brain! Keep up the discussion and ask more questions.

 

Not necessarily .... since ADD / ADHD / Depression / and other conditions are associated with deficient Dopamine and Norepinephrine neurotransmission ... and Caffeine increases both of these ... as does some of the ADD drugs including Wellbutrin ....

However, some people will experience Panic Attacks with Caffeine ...

 

Thanks for the info .... Do you know if THC has any effect on the NAChr receptors (the same receptors that Nicotine binds to, such as the alpha-7 subunit) ???

 

From the book I read on the Cannabinoid system called "A Primer of Drug Action", which is a graduate psychopharm text, there was no mention of the NACh receptors or any ACh activation whatsoever. However, I will look at it again when I have access to the book (right now I am visiting my parents' and the book is in my apartment in Newark).

 

From what I have researched, I can tell you that I really do not believe that they do.

 

I just did a thorough reading of the chapters on Cannabinoids in Feldman's Principles of Neuropsychopharmacology and I have the answer to settle the Acetylcholine debate.

Cannabinioids do not act as agonists, antagonists, nor positive or negative allosteric modulators at any of the Nicotinic Acetylcholine or Muscarinic Acetylcholine receptors. However, activation of CB1 receptors (at which the Cannabinoids are agonists), causes indirect action on the RELEASE of Acetylcholine (amongst other things: also dopamine and norepinephrine). In the hippocampus, especially, the release of Acetylcholine is strongly inhibited. Don't be fooled into thinking this makes it an Acetylcholine antagonist. It just means that due to the general neural inhibitory nature of the cannbinoids, coupled with the fact that CB1 receptors are populous in the hippocampus, that, inevitably, Acetylcholine release will be dampened.

This, in conclusion, explains many of the negative effects on memory, linear thought, and general confusion that occurs to many upon smoking. Antagonists of Acetylcholine receptors are known to produce similar effects, and Alzheimer's disease (think again: confusion, unfamiliarity with surroundings) is known to be partially due to a down-regulation of the Acetylcholine system in the brain! Fascinating, isn't it!!??