A perspective on why man must not sleep with man and why God hates that

Not everything is just perception. It's my personal belief that people can learn to find 2 girls one cup as something sexy. I don't see anything normal about finding feces sexy. Not really a judgment... I just think we can learn to ignore perfectly rational stimuli for the sake of 'broadening our perceptions". When all we are really accomplish is blocking out stimuli that might be there to help protect and guide us away from harmful behaviors.

 

So you feel that finding these disgusting is just a matter of perception?

 

Nice try, but "emotional ammunition" is only going to backfire on you in this case.
First of all, it isn't about what I find disgusting or not. I'm discussing perception in general, not my personal interpretation of things.
Second of all, there is nothing about these images that conveys that everyone in the world must finds them disgusting. I'm sure that a mound of dead, emancipated Jewish bodies didn't disgust Hitler at all. He may have even found it glorious.

 

Thanks for checking your humanity at the door.

But question is not whether you find them disgusting or not but as you said: "If it truly is disgusting, they would have to, on some level of their beings, recognize it as such, even if they don't admit it to others". Now you may try to dismiss it as "emotional ammunition" but what you are trying to dismiss are things that people consider in of themselves disgusting. It was pictures like the last one the started a whole nation turning against the Vietnam war and the other two represent atrocities so heinous that an international court told the perpetrators basically they should have known better and thus there was no excuse for what they had done.

As for whether Hitler found it disgusting is not the question, whether a psychopath finds his murders disgusting or not does not make his murders any less wrong or disgusting.

 

You're welcome. Now if only you'd do the same, maybe we could have a rational conversation.

You say that they are things "people" (whatever that means...which people..who?) consider in and of themselves disgusting, but it's quite obvious not everyone does, or else they never would have happened. So what about the people who don't? Are they not people, or are they just not "people", that is to say, those who hold views similiar to yours?
Individual sentiments often run in line with national sentiments. It doesn't really matter if the entire world decides to label something "disgusting"; there still isn't anything within that something that is disgusting, it would just be the worlds perception of it.

Any less wrong or digusting to who? To you? I'm sure a psychopath's perceptions probably don't have a lot of influence on your perceptions (or perhaps they do, fueling you to opposition), but you still haven't really explained why something must have inherent qualities to it.
What you are basically claiming is that there are proper and improper ways to perceive things, but you haven't really explained why. That's what I'm waiting on.
Part of the reason I don't agree, is because if there is only one correct way to perceive something, then there must be only one correct way to perceive any something. For instance, if genocide and homosexual anal sex are inherently "disgusting", then what is the correct way to perceive a grilled cheese sandwhich? Or how about Duck Tales? Where would it end, and who would be correct?

 

It is interesting to me that just to try and prove that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, you are willing to say that there is nothing inherently wrong with genocide. Well like I said, thanks for checking your humanity at the door but it doesn't seem to have made your conversation any more rational.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZBnEKbb6mo

I thought those debates were interesting. Can't say that I agree with everything that is said (either side), but interesting.

If you decide to watch, some warnings:

The ones carrying hateful signs are pseudochristians and Mormons. Also, ignore the catchy beginning, it has no value in what is discussed.

 

I dunno what monkey boy was talkin about. But if you follow this thread, surely youd see that the important passage is in leviticus, it says that

a man must not have sexual relations with another man; god hates that.

If anyone has any passages relating to penis in anus please share it.

or penis in mouth

i didnt notice it in my readings

 

How else can two men have sexual relations together?

Oral sex is a sexual relation (Unless you're Bill Clinton ). Anal sex is a sexual relation. Mutual masturbation is a sexual relation. so "a man must not have sexual relations with another man" is the same as saying, "penis in anus" or "penis in mouth".

If there were a book that had a story in it that explained to the character to not open a jar of cookies, and that character decided to smash the jar of cookies with a rod to by-pass opening the jar of cookies rule, is that person still opening the jar of cookies? The ending result is that the jar has been opened, which is the very thing that was asked to be avoided. No amount of by-passing can accomplish safely breaking this rule.

But Dad, said the son, "I didn't open the jar of cookies with the lid ". And the father replies, "Oh, but son, you may not have taken the cookies out by using the lid, but here the cookies are, laying beside my feet."

Mmmmm cookies.

 

Neodude, I love ya buddy, but I have to say this:

It seems like you really went out of your way to end up saying, "It's ok to not be disgusted by a pile of corpses that were piled on top of each other as though they were garbage. It's just a matter of perception". Really man? Is unit 731 a matter of perception too?

We live in an age of desensitization. What was once considered absolutely abhorrent is now seen as just a matter of perception. But you gotta understand... this isn't a matter of perception, it's simply wrong (talking about the corpses atm).

You could have just said, "Ya, those images are disgusting and wrong, but I don't see how this pertains to homosexuality". Because you don't have to lay down your senses just to avoid saying, "Homosexuality is wrong". Because not for anything man, that's what it seems like you're doing. Please don't deny.

If it wasn't for TV and media being omnipresent displaying these images of war 24/7, do you think we would be different? How often in this world would we see such images throughout our lifetimes if we did not have these images displayed and projected into our brains on a daily bases? Once in a lifetime? Never? Whatever the case, much less than what we see now.

There was a time when images like OWB posted would reshape the directions of entire wars. There was a time in england when coins were made to get people to remember their conscience concerning the slave trade. When this happened, people thought about what was said and were moved by it. This is a matter of humanity, not perception. I just ask that you don't lay down your humanity just to try to prove that everything is a matter of perception. I'm sure there are many aspects in life that is a matter of perception, but not at the sake at what makes us human.

Don't lay down your heart for the sake of your mind.

 

Actually, if neodude had asked, I was willing to say that perhaps the disgust I felt toward homosexual PDA and to a lesser degree heterosexual PDA very well could have been a matter of my perception but when neodude said: “The heart of the matter is that if you find something disgusting, it isn't because it is disgusting, but because you think it's disgusting.”, all I could think of is, although that may be true of homosexuality, there are some things like genocide that are inherently wrong and disgusting and that has nothing with perception or how someone thinks about it.

 

That's pretty much what I was trying to say. That's what I was commenting on.

And you're right, some things are just a matter of perception, while some things are not. I touched up on it a bit, maybe not so well.

But I know what you mean.

 

I thought you expressed it well, I was just adding my 2 cents worth.

 

iiight

 

iiight?

 

My way of saying, I get cha'

 

iiight

 

Oh wait, you lost me.
The point was that there is no inherent value to anything. It is our perception of these things, and then our subsequent judgements of them, that gives value or the lack of value to them. It's all about how everything relates to me. It's much broader than just homosexuality and genocide. But yes, this actually does include genocide. If that's too much for you to handle, then so be it, but you still haven't explained why anything is necessarily and inherently wrong or right.

 

The point was that there is no inherent value to anything?

I know that is what you are saying and in trying to prove that you are saying that there is nothing inherently wrong with genocide. Perhaps you would be so kind as to give an example of when you think genocide is a good thing or even a neutral thing and not just out and out wrong. Perhaps an example of how the extermination of whatever cultural group you belong to, would ever be a good thing.

I know that the Nazis might have thought it a good thing but an international court in Nuremberg told them they were wrong and told them they should have known better. These trials basically showed that even though some might perceive genocide as “OK” that perception was incorrect and valueless and that genocide is wrong despite any perception to the contrary.

 

Yes, really.
And for the record, I wasn't the one to bring up genocide.

"This isn't a matter of perception, it's simply wrong."
While this assertion has been made again and again throughout this thread, I still haven't even any reasoning or explanation of why it's "simply wrong."

Deny what? If I had proclaimed that those images were disgusting and wrong, that would be completely irrelvant to this conversation and besides the point. As I've said before, this isn't about what I happen to like/dislike, but rather, perception in general.

If you perceive it, it is a matter of perception, is it not? I'm not laying down anything; these are views that I live day to day with, views that I base my life off of.
And by the way, what is it exactly, that makes us human, and how is it at odds with what I have stated?