a reincarnation of goddess saraswati...

In a way Nicole, it seems that it encapsulates one of the central truths of Hindu philosophy - no matter how grand the systems, how precisely worked out the details, it is all there because of His divine lila. And it's going on and on all the time...

 

Dear Relayer ,
It is merely a matter of ego claiming to be God without the proper realization of the all pervading God that exists everywhere.

When a jiva claims to be "God" , it only does so because of half knowledge and misunderstanding. In fact, as long as the concepts of "we", "they", "you" or "I" exist, the compartmentalized consciousness suffers the results of its own mind. How can something like that be God?

Then who is God? God is the only reality, not the stuff that mind makes up, hence, anyone who claims that "he" is God is being misled and is misleading others as well.

To make it more clear, as long as the jivas exist as an apparent reality , they are servants of God. When the entire concept of jiva itself perishes, then we can claim that God alone exists. Hope that makes sense.

 

Thank you. You see the statement "Tat Tvam Asi" is not to be uttered, it is to be simply realized.

 

It's a fact that even the highest realized masters don't generally say 'I am God'.
The thing can't really be explained on the level of reason - we are God and not God at the same time. If we were God completely, then we wouldn't also be the individual.

It's also a very bad way to approach people, this claiming to be God - it's a fact of human nature that we tend to like a certain modesty in people. I would immediately be extremely suspicious of anyone saying they are God.

Usually, when you ask for a simple demonstaration from such people of the power of God, or in fact, even minor siddhis, they can't give you one. Soetimes they will tell you that you are unworthy to experience such a demo. I don't think I need comment on that...it speaks for itself.


There are powers of the mind and what Sri Aurobindo termed the vital plane which can and do often imitate the divine. I think there are definitlely some who are deluded by such forces, and do believe they are God.

Far better to say 'I am a child of the divine'. And I can't actually think of any better position one could be in than to be a child of the divine. At least as long as we are individuals.

 

A Doctor friend of mine just had to hospitalise some guy who thought and said he was god ... it seems he believed he was controlling everyone.

 

I hope your friend makes a speedy recovery.

 

Hare Krishna!

When a Jnani says "I am God", he probably does not mean his body but the soul. When he goes above the sense of the body and attains 'moksha' he well knows that his body is not "him", it is the soul that is him. For a great Yogi even his body becomes chaitanyamay. We know cases of Mira Bai, Sri Chaitanya and Trailangaswami. After death their bodies disappeared or they simply vanished.

At the same time in the Gita for the sake of us Krishna gave us the knowledge that body and soul are separate and the soul is our real being. Body perishes but the soul remains. Even for Himself He said the same thing although He very clearly said that He himself was God. But His several deeds also tell us that even His whole body was Chaitanyamay.

Lord Jishu (Jesus Christ) said He was son of God. His acts and deeds tell us without any doubt that His whole body was chaitanyamay. His body had perished like that of Krishna.

Sri Ramakrishna had very clearly said, "Ram and Krishna are the same Lord and now in this body the Lord has become Ramakrishna." Ramakrishna's body had its natural end although we know that each and every pore of his body was chaitanyamay.

Deha-suddhi (Purity of the body) is difficult and most difiicult is to go above the sense of the body. As Jedi says, the Gita also says that deha-buddhi (Sense of the body) remains till the last when the most compassionate Lord gives us His grace and accepts us. Even the most pure Sita cannot garland Lord Ram unless He leans down and forward to accept the same. Then only the marriage (To leave, to cleave and to become one flesh) becomes possible.

However, probably the best attitude for us, as BBB has said, is - "You are the Lord and I am your servant" or " You are the father and I am your son". I try to see that "You are my mother and I am your baby son."

Love,

Kumar.

 

" I and the father are one." - Jesus supposedly said. What does it mean? I would take xexons "I am a leaf on the god tree." , to mean the same thing.
'Oneness' i take to mean just that ... one, ...not separate from. So the leaf is both the tree and a part of the tree. As the leaf contains the same code and pattern of the tree, it follows the plan of the tree as a whole. The leaf knows it's place.
- But humans, having fallen for the illusion of separation, often do not know their place but the higher will is still active from deep within and is guiding them to rememberance of their connection to everything so they can follow the BIG plan.
To say you are god surely sounds arrogant when spoken out of the context of the leaf/tree idea which is why Jesus said it another way and why spiritual masters don't say it either. They know their place in the scheme of things, and often terms like 'Living embodiment of' are used. I think possibly that the only time anyone (!) will ever truly be able to say "I am god" is at the end of all form in the void ... trouble is you'll have nobody to say it to ... silly isn't it. Damned paradoxes and words eh?

 

Hare Krishna!

"The father and I are the same ", Lord Jesus had (Supposedly ?) said. In that case or if He had directly said He was God, there is no problem for me to accept that Jesus was God. For me He is God, I am happy that I do not have any doubts about that.

The Gita says that God himself comes to us when situations demand. So, why can't we accept that Jesus was God. There is no difference between a Purnavatar and God. An avatar can say he is God. God, as an avatar, is a servant in his own office.

I do not know........... I want to live with somebody in some form as God. So, I have no problems in accepting Ramana Maharshi or Yogi Krishnaprem or Sri Ramakrishna as my God.

Am I a fool ? Well, I suppose, definitely not. After all I am at least one poor leaf of that great Tree.

Love,

Kumar

 

This seems relevant here - it is from 'The Mother' by Sri Aurobindo:

"The last stage of this perfection will come when you are completely identified with the Divine Mother and feel yourself to be no longer another and separate being, instrument, servant or worker but truly a child and eternal portion of her consciousness and force.............You will know and see and feel that you are a person and power formed by her out of herself, put out for the play and yet always safe in her, being of her being, consciousness of her consciousness, force of her force, Ananda of her Ananda"

 

Hare Krishna!


From BBB.....

This seems relevant here - it is from 'The Mother' by Sri Aurobindo:

"The last stage of this perfection will come when you are completely identified with the Divine Mother and feel yourself to be no longer another and separate being, instrument, servant or worker but truly a child and eternal portion of her consciousness and force.............You will know and see and feel that you are a person and power formed by her out of herself, put out for the play and yet always safe in her, being of her being, consciousness of her consciousness, force of her force, Ananda of her Ananda"



Dear Andrew,

That is so sweet and wonderful!
That is the point and that says it all about "The father and son " relationship of Lord Jesus. Glory to my dear Lord Jesus! He always takes care of His devotee. Thank you.

Love,

Kumar.

 

Yes it's true! The more we depend on God, the more devoted we become, the more God takes care of us.

 

..oops.

 

"... and yet always safe in her, being of her being, consciousness of her consciousness, force of her force, Ananda of her Ananda"

Thats lovely! ... and says it all for me. It speaks of a safety in letting go and being who you really are through whomever you happen to be and trusting in and listening to 'yourself' and you own thoughts and feelings, instead of, in my case, the negative and harmful voices of others. A spiritual councellor once said to me "The truth will always speak with kindness." ...and just that one thing i can use in my life as a guide in understanding thoughts from within and voices from without.

 

I'm very happy that you find some inspiration in the words of Sri Aurobindo.
He has an immense compassion.

The more we can just let go, or surrender to the divine, the more security, true happiness and grace comes to us. The divine love can heal past traumas, and allow us to view our lives, even the bad things, in a totally new light.

I know just how the negative attitudes of others can tend to drag you down. I think though that if we try to have a real aspiration and faith, we can withstand such influences.

As my friend GD Kumar posted:

The thing is that to have devotion to any genuine spiritual personality is a great aid to us and in fact, a grace in itself, a gift of the spirit. It is also a source of the greatest joy - and one which is sure and unchanging.
Some great saints of India, such as Sri Chaitanya, have prayed that they should always keep a certain separation from God so as to enjoy the bliss of devotion for ever. One with God, but still in a blissful relation with Him.

It's great to have you on this forum liquidlight - I hope you'll stick around for a while.

 

Hare Krishna!

From BBB.....

Some great saints of India, such as Sri Chaitanya, have prayed that they should always keep a certain separation from God so as to enjoy the bliss of devotion for ever. One with God, but still in a blissful relation with Him.


Oh ! Andrew, dear ;

That's so beautiful, thanks again ! Your way of using words and expressing is so nice ! Grace, it is all His Grace upon you and it is working.

Thakur Shri Ramakrishna also had repeatedly said the same thing like Sri Chaitanya. Prabhu Jesus also, all his life, maintained the same separation (One with God but still in a blissful relation with Him...Oh! wonderful !) Hope, we can also blissfully feel it the same way as they did.

Love,

Kumar.

 

Hare Krishna!

From BBB........

It's great to have you on this forum liquidlight - I hope you'll stick around for a while.


Very truly said. Think, we sing the same song and if we stick around , we will have Liquidlight with us. After all, birds of the same feather flock together. Lots of love to both of you.

Kumar.

 

Well thankyou Black Bill Blake and gdKumar, it IS nice to have found these forums and what attracted me to them was the 'free speech' tag. A month ago i joined a forum for people who have experienced Kundalini working in their lives ... it was for mutual support really but i guess i should have read the forum rules before registering because when i did i was shocked ... along with normal rules of common respect which you'd expect to find (why i didn't read them) i found i wasn't allowed to 'undermine' (disagree with) the stated advise of the moderator, who owned and paid for the site, and i wasn't allowed to say anything bad about the USA or it's government (i could do but wouldn't really want to). In short i found elements of 'control' there ... i may as well have been gagged because i couldn't speak freely. So when the moderator/owner asked me rather rudely one day not to give my own view beside his own i just left.
I want to speak freely and i want others to have that freedom. I believe in common respect where everyone can stand up on the podium nomatter who they are and have their say ... about anything and not be judged, ignored or ridiculed. It's all valid.

... if i remember correctly i googled 'free speech forum' and found this place a few weeks ago. It really is a melting pot of everything here and it's a pretty crazy place ... i like it!
Thanks

Quote:
"Some great saints of India, such as Sri Chaitanya, have prayed that they should always keep a certain separation from God so as to enjoy the bliss of devotion for ever. One with God, but still in a blissful relation with Him."

Heh, thats kind of the leaf/tree thing again ... like waking up and taking your position as a beacon of love in the world ... really just being who you are ... no holds barred.

This Sri Aurobindo does sound interesting ... i read a link the other day which described his 'model' ..if you like, of layers of conciousness and mind. ... his 'supra mind' or whatever.

Could you perhaps post a couple of good links about him?

 

Certainly

A general site for Sri Aurobindo's Yoga
http://www.miraura.org/

This site has many of Sri Aurobindo and The Mother's works.
http://intyoga.online.fr/index.htm

It's hard to know where to begin with Sri Aurobindo - his work is quite complex and many sided. His major works, such as 'The Life Divine' and 'Savitri' are quite a serious read.

I think that's one reason why he isn't that well known in the west. In India he is widely respected.
There are various introductory books, in my opinion one of the best is 'Sri Aurobindo and The Mother' by Kireet Joshi.

I'd be happy to answer any specific questions you might have if I am able to.


Sri Aurobindo.

 

I suppose I'd better make my position clear on all of this.

Although for me the teachings of Sri Aurobindo have been extremely useful, I wouldn't want anyone to get the impression that I am seeking here to 'convert' others to my own view.
As I said before, Sri Aurobindo and the Mother are not very well known outside of India, which might seem surprising, as Sweet Mother was a Frenchwoman of Arabic descent.
I have also found that even among those who do know of them, many are really not so well informed.
Obviously, since it means a great deal to me, I tend to use short quotes etc occasionally where I think it may help to clarify anything which comes up for discussion, as with my quote from 'The Mother' on this thread.

However, it would be a huge mistake to think that they are the only wise ones, or the only ones with the experience of the divine, or able to help others to attain such experience.

There are a number of great yogis and saints whom I think are well worth attention - such as those mentioned previously by gdkumar - Sri Ramakrishna, Krishnaprem, Ramana Maharishi etc. It's really a question of finding what is appropriate for oneself at the stage one is at.

Since I have been touched at a deep level by many different teachers, I just wanted to point this out. One of the main advantages of Indian yoga philosophy over some other paths is the very diversity of teachings and methods. The 'one size fits all' type mentality has little place in all of this.

So for me the central teaching which I try to follow is that which derives from Sri Aurobindo, but I also have reverence and respect for many others, even where there might sometimes appear to be a contradiction. Mainly, the contradictions are of the mind only.

The divine has many faces, and comes before us in a multitude of forms -