A Simple Fact

Hare Krishna!

Whatever very simple is very complex depending on how we look at it. That is how 'A Simple Fact' tends to become 'A Complex Fact'. No wonder that instead of looking simply inside our ownselves, we look for God everywhere ouside, travel miles and waste all our lifetime.

The wonderful Lila is all about that only ...simple/complex, 6/9, words and words... never ending.

Give it any name, the Lila will go on.

Love,

Kumar.

 

Nobody said it contains existence. It is existence. Otherwise there could not be a void (nonexistence cannot exist).
Both being and non-being are in me: If you experience the world of names and forms, that is me and if you go beyond and experience the void, that is me also.

By the way, the Vishnu Sahasranama lists one of the names of Krishna as shunya -- The Void.

 

I just use the word void personally to describe a higher consciousness that I have not experienced. How can we fully know and experience the infinite? We are known and experienced by it aren't we? Sorry, I didn't mean to make the simple fact complex.

Edit; A better way to say it might be if existence is infinite it must be always unfolding and revealing itself.

 

Thanks. I like how he talks about evolving and growing. Existence is in a constant state of change.

 

I think it's more that the content of existence itself is changing, but existence is not changing. Maybe like each wave is different form the next, but the ocean is the same. Like we may drink whiskey or Ganges water or sherbet or coffee out of the same mug. Content changes. Mug is the same.

 

Thanks Bhaskar that makes sense to me. I found this quote by Sri Aurobindo interesting. This is from when he was in jail.

I looked at the jail that secluded me from men and it was no longer by its high walls that I was imprisoned; no, it was Vasudeva who surrounded me. I walked under the branches of the tree in front of my cell but it was not the tree, I knew it was Vasudeva, it was Sri Krishna whom I saw standing there and holding over me his shade. I looked at the bars of my cell, the very grating that did duty for a door and again I saw Vasudeva. It was Narayana who was guarding and standing sentry over me. Or I lay on the coarse blankets that were given me for a couch and felt the arms of Sri Krishna around me, the arms of my Friend and Lover. This was the first use of the deeper vision He gave me. I looked at the prisoners in the jail, the thieves, the murderers, the swindlers, and as I looked at them I saw Vasudeva, it was Narayana whom I found in these darkened souls and misused bodies.

 

Thanks for the beautiful, beautiful passage.

Your thoughts, Bill?

 

Hare Krishna !

Dear MB, beautiful post. it implies that there is never a void anywhere, Brahma Chaitanya Shakti in the form of Vasudeva is always there. Exixtence is always there void is not there any where. For the sake of describing a state we say 'void'.

Love,

Kumar.

Dear Bhaskar, good examples, thanks.

Love,

Kumar.

 

Just a couple of thoughts in general on the subject of the void.

In one sense, the void can be understood as a kind of point that is reached where the mind is empty, the movements stilled, thus giving room for something deeper, wider and higher to manifest.

Another way of looking at it might be in terms of the symbolism of Shiva(or Ishwara)/Shakti, where Shiva is shown sometimes apparently sleeping whilst Kali dances on the chest. Shiva here represents the void in the sense that he represents all that is not manifest - a kind of ocean of potentialities which when received by Shakti are thrown into manifest forms.

 

Sri Aurobindo was seeing on the level of spiritual essence - seeing behind the external flawed human beings. I think it's significant that Sri A was in jail (but about to be aquitted at his trial) when this all occured.....It was after this period that he gave up his previous political work for Indian Nationalism and turned completely to Yoga.
Some said he would have made a good president for independent India - Sri Aurobindo though saw something higher, a greater goal that would be for all places and times in the future - liberation of the whole of earthly existence - it's transformation into something Higher.

This following passage may be of some interest, as in it Sri Aurobindo says something about his ideas about 'voidism' in general.

From 'Sri Aurobindo to Dilip', vol.2.

"The Mayavadin (Mayavada =Great Void) labours to establish his point of view or his experience by a rigorous logical reasoning. Only, when it comes to an explanation of Maya, he, like the scientist dealing with Nature, can do no more than arrange and organize his ideas of the process of this universal mystification; he cannot explain how or why this illusionary mystifying Maya came into existence. He can only say 'Well, but it is there'.
Of course it is there. But the question is, first, what is it?
Is it really an illusionary power and nothing else, or is the Mayavadin's idea of it a mistaken first view, a mental imperfect reading, or perhaps even itself an illusion?
And next 'Is illusion the sole or the highest power which the Divine Consciousness or Superconsciousness posseses?' The absolute is an absolute Truth free from Maya, otherwise liberation would not be possible. Has then the Supreme and absolute Truth no other active power than a power of falsehood and with it, no doubt, for the two go together, a power of dissolving or disowning the falsehood - which is yet there forever?
I suggested that this may sound a little queer. But queer or not, if it is so, it is so - for as you point out, the ineffable cannot be subjested to the laws of logic. But who is to decide whether it is so? You will say 'those who get there'.But get where?To the perfect and highest, purnam param. Is it the Mayavadin's featureless Brahman that perfect and complete - is it the very highest? Is there not, or can there not be a higher than that highest, parat puram? That is not a question of logic, it is a question of od spiritual fact, of a supreme and complete experience. The solution of the matter must rest not upon logic but uopn a growing, ever heightening, widening spiritual experience - an experience which must of course include Nirvana and Maya, otherwise it would not be complete and would have no descisive value.
To reach Nirvana was the first radical result of my own Yoga. It threw me suddenly into a condition above and without thought,, unsustained by any mental or vital movement; there was no ego, no real world - only when one looked throughn the immoblle senses, something perceived or bore upon its sheer silence a world of empty forms, materialized shadows without true substance. There was no One or many even, only just absolutely That, featureless, relationless, sheer, indescribable, unthinkable, absolute, yet supremely real and solely real. This was no mental realization nor something glimpsed somewhere above - no abstraction - it was positive, substantial, the only positive reality - it was here in the very so-called physical world, pervading, occupying or rather flooding and drowning this semblance of a physical world, leaving no room or space for any reality but itself, allowing nothing else to seem at all actual, positive or substantial. I cannot say there was anything exhillerating or rapturous in the experience, as it then came to me - (the ineffable Ananda I had years afterwards) - but what it brought was an inexpressible peace, a stupendous silence, an infinity of release and freedom. I lived in that Nirvana for many months day and night before it began to admit other things into itself or modify itself at all, and in fact fundamentally it remained for years and years together until in the end it began to disappear slowly into a greater Superconsciousness from above. But meanwhile, realization added itself to realization and fused itself with this original experience. At an early stage the aspect of an illusionary world gave place to one in which illusion is only a small surface phenomenon with an immense Divine Reality behind it and a Supreme Divine Reality above it and an intense Divine Reality in the heart of every thing that had semmed at first only a cinematic shape or shadow.
And this was no re-imprisonment in the senses, no diminuition or fall from supreme experience, it came rather as a constant heightening and widening of the Truth; it was the spirit that saw objects, not the senses, and the Peace, the Silence, the freedom in infinity remained always, with the world, or all worlds only as a continuous incident in the timeless eternity of the Divine.
Now, that is the whole trouble in my approach to the Mayavada . Nirvana, in my liberated consciousness turned out to be the beginning of my realization, a first step towards the complete thing, not the sole true attainment possible or even a culminating finale."

 

Evolution is absolutely at the core of Sri Aurobindo's system.

On one level, 'world evolution ' ie the coming into existence of the universe, planets, living beings in an ascending scale of consciousness and forms.
The other line of evolution is 'soul evolution' - the evolution of the individual soul that has descended in to the unconsciousness of matter (involution) back to its source in the Superconsciousness where it has its true Being.
The two are of course linked.

Sri Aurobindo says that there are many other worlds on different planes of being, but only here does evolution take place. The other worlds are fixed - he refers to them as 'typal' worlds.
In a sense, this world is the place where all the energies of the other planes come together.
Imagine a set of floodlights all focued on the same spot - not the best analogy but gives a rough idea.

 

Very nice quote. Thanks. That addresses my question about infinity. How can we ever attain it? It seems to be more about continued growth beyond what we think is the end. I found another Ari Aurobindo quote about our relation to infinity.

There is no mortality. It is only the Immortal who can die; the mortal could neither be born nor perish. There is nothing finite. It is only the Infinite who can make for Himself limits; the finite can have no beginning nor end, for the very act of conceiving its beginning and end declares its infinity.

 

A description of the realized master from the Yoga Vashishta:
[FONT=&quot][/FONT] [FONT=&quot]antahpurno bahihpurnah purnakumbha ivarnave |[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]antahshunyo bahihshunyah shunyakumbha ivambare ||[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Full inside, full outside, like a pot in the ocean.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Empty inside, empty outside, like a pot in outer space.
[/FONT]

 

Here's a link to a shortish piece by Sri Aurobindo in which he gives some of the basics of His teachings.

http://intyoga.online.fr/ttosa2.htm

 

Hare Krishna!


Originally posted by BBB.....

"Just a couple of thoughts in general on the subject of the void.

In one sense, the void can be understood as a kind of point that is reached where the mind is empty, the movements stilled, thus giving room for something deeper, wider and higher to manifest.

Another way of looking at it might be in terms of the symbolism of Shiva(or Ishwara)/Shakti, where Shiva is shown sometimes apparently sleeping whilst Kali dances on the chest. Shiva here represents the void in the sense that he represents all that is not manifest - a kind of ocean of potentialities which when received by Shakti are thrown into manifest forms."


Dear BBB,

Thanks for the beautiful post, I love it.

State of nothingness, emptiness or 'void' of our mind is easily understandable if meditation is practised for some time. But even when we understand that the emptiness or void has been achieved and the mind is free of everything, your sincere meditation will certainly tell you that all is not gone , something is still remaining and that is the most difficult thing to remove. Your sense of the body (Deha-buddhi) still works. So perfect void if at all exists would happen when you forget about your own body and ' yourself ' (Sense of the 'I and my' ).

The moment the point of this void comes, same time comes the 'Shakti', the force, Kundalini shakti or Divine Consciousness. Duration and quality of this consciousness varies (Depending on the rise or fall of the Kundalini power).

Shiva and Shakti both are same, like us if I can say so. We are Shiva and the Shakti is within us. It is one and at the same time it is separable.

With love,

Kumar.

 

This is very true. It's a fact that there are deep states of trance where all bodily consciousness is lost. There are numerous descriptions of this coming from different sources - I like Swami Vivekanada's account, where he said as he was entering into Nirvikalpa Samhadi, he could feel his body becoming numb from the feet up, and thought for a time he was dying.

From the viewpoint of Sri Aurobindo's philosophy, it's a question of the Light entering not only the mind, but the vital and physical parts as well. But the mind is really where we have to start from.

I like the way Sri Ramakrishna expressed it - Shiva and Shakti are like the sun's disc and the sun's rays.

 

Hare Krishna !

From BBB....

"This is very true. It's a fact that there are deep states of trance where all bodily consciousness is lost. There are numerous descriptions of this coming from different sources - I like Swami Vivekanada's account, where he said as he was entering into Nirvikalpa Samhadi, he could feel his body becoming numb from the feet up, and thought for a time he was dying.

From the viewpoint of Sri Aurobindo's philosophy, it's a question of the Light entering not only the mind, but the vital and physical parts as well. But the mind is really where we have to start from.

I like the way Sri Ramakrishna expressed it - Shiva and Shakti are like the sun's disc and the sun's rays."


Dear BBB,

It is very true that Divine Consciousness, Brahma Chaitanya-Shakti, is not only involving the mind but the body as well. There are numbers of examples, Sri Trailanga Swami, Mira Bai, Thakur (Sri Ramakrishna), Ramana Maharshi, Swami Muktananda Paramahansa.....endless names.

I have seen Ma Indira Devi going into deep trance suddenly on hearing something from one of the visitors, a lady. My wife was sitting by Her side while She had placed Her right hand on my wife's left hand, on Her lap. Later my wife told me the sensation that she had during that period (About 20 minutes). She said, when Ma went into trance, she felt as if electricity was passing through her body and she became numb and unaware of what was happening.

Thanks for the wonderful example given by Thakur Sri Ramakrishna, who else could give such a clear, simple and beautiful example !

With love,

Kumar.

 

Ma Indira must have had an amazing presence! I'm sure Kumar that some of Her Grace must have rubbed off on you.....

Sri Ramakrishna had a divine way, simple yet poetic, of being able to express great truths through metaphors and parables.

 

Hare Krishna!

From BBB.........

"Ma Indira must have had an amazing presence! I'm sure Kumar that some of Her Grace must have rubbed off on you.....

Sri Ramakrishna had a divine way, simple yet poetic, of being able to express great truths through metaphors and parables."


Dear Andrew,

Thanks.

No matter how much I try to tell about Ma, it would not be satisfying for me, because I am still ignorant like a small baby not having any word to express anything properly. It satisfies me when I just say that I love Her and I know for sure that She loves me, too. I am not Her disciple still that is the truth. She is my Ma, my daughter, my friend, my own being.... my everything. They never die but even today I cry for Her that I can never see Her again in Her material form. Her Grace, Compassion and Love is always there for you, me and every being in this universe.

About Thakur ? He envelopes everything, the whole universe. He is my father, mother, son, Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, my little cute Gopal....my everything.

Only once we need to sincerely cry for God, then all become yours own and you belong to all. It is ananda, it is shanti, it's peace and it's bliss that we talk about.

With love,

Dilip.

 

http://www.gurusfeet.com/files/gurus_gallery_pics/ramana2.jpg