Abortion

No, but the statistics themselves are a guess. How does that not make sense? Do I have to spell it out for you?

 

Oh, and by the way, I would draw the line after 1. How can you not know youre pregnant before 3 months duration?

If you arent willing to have an abortion done immediately, you shouldnt get one period. I never said I was for abortion period; I do NOT agree with 3rd trimester abortions, unless it is for some medical reason (which does happen) I do NOT agree with not being first, counseled and the whole bit. But, I dont think it should be completely illegal, either.

 

this is taken straight from an abortion statistics report done in 1999:

The region with the next highest estimated abortion rate is Latin America (37 per 1,000), where almost all abortions are illegal. Legal abortions are generally available only in Cuba, Puerto Rico and some small Caribbean countries. Of the subregions of Latin America, the Caribbean has the highest rate, in part because of the relatively high incidence of abortion in Cuba.


Almost all abortions are illegal here, yet.... they have the second highest abortion rate in the world.... you do the fucking math.

 

by the way, Maximus, stop ridiculing Canada for having such "high" 3rd trimester abortion rates; taken from Wikipedia: Approximately 90% of abortions are performed in the first trimester, with just 2 to 3% performed after 16 weeks.

There is also difficulty with accessing third-term abortions. In Quebec, there is currently no doctor who will perform a third-term abortion unless the health of the woman is in great peril or there is a genetic disorder. Currently the province sends women who seek to have third-term abortions performed to the United States. Quebec is currently actively looking to hire a doctor to do third-term abortions, but has not been successful as of October 2004.


yes, and that is for Canada, alone.

 

Statistics is a mathematical formula based on samples to produce an accurate estimate. For more info go to:http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/rsarp00.pdf


Bustramp

 

But you cannot provide a sample of how many women are raped and dont report it; that isnt realistic. How the fuck would you know, if they dont say anything? Thats ridiculous.

 

and in the US you do NOT have to give reason for your abortion, so HOW would they know which cases are rape, and which are not, especially if the rape went unreported?

this pisses me off, because I KNOW girls, personally, that have dealt with that situation. take your statistics and shove it, please, because there is no statistic that can be anywhere near fucking accurate for that sort of thing.

 

Because certain organizations have done national surveys, people interviewed said they were raped and didn't report it for various reasons. Based on the data they obtained, a statistical estimate of around 70% of rapes go unreported. Read the police crime reports on rape or the FBI reports.

Bustramp

 

Chile doesn't seem to have that problem. Take a look at this site, it's full blown stats:

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/index.html

Chile btw is the only nation in Latin America as far as I know that bans all abortions, it is true that most Latin American countries ban most abortions ( on demand and rape ) but still allow health risks and fetal defects as a reason, but Chile is the only country that bans all types of abortions. That site above doesn't show many legal abortions but all you have to do is look at the number of live births, and yes it is in fact true, as you can clearly see ( if you're looking at the Chile page ) that the number of live births has decreased every year since 1990, from 1991 onward, it seems the number of live births has decreased, strange since abortion was never actually legal, so it might just be that in the 90s Chilians had more access to birth control.

 

I'm leaving that alone for the fact that no statistics exist. It's sad because I believe rape should be severely punished, 50 years, no parole, we have it much too light in Canada. If rapists were sentenced to 50 years and never allowed back into the streets rape would not be as common. Out of around 100 Million possible female targets for rape I just logically find it hard to believe 1 in 100 gets raped, that's every year, so I think one thing you can put your thumb on is that the majority of abortions coudl not be done because of rape simply because there can't be that many rapes a year.....if there are then we live in a savage world.

P.S. I was refering to teh States.

 

When did I mention Wikipedia as a source? I do believe I said Wikipedia is a horrible source and the only thing I used it for was the first paragraph of the Legality of Abortion article, and the map, which isn't from Wikipedia, but it's easy to access that map on Wikipedia. Abortion statistics for Canada can be found in the site I provided, as far as abortion by Trimester, I have yet to find a credible site for that, all I have is the statistics in my mother's medical books which she gets a new copy of every year, it states that yes 1st Trimester abortions make up 74% of all abortions, and that only 4% make up 3rd Trimester ( with 22% done in the 2nd ) it's still wrong.
Oh, and btw, 2nd Trimester starts between 13-14th week, not 16th. The first heartbeat occurs usually after the first month, or 4-5 weeks of pregnancy, and I'm against abortion after the first heartbeat, unless rare circumstances.

 

I think people should put off having sex if they can. Desires are strong, but casually doing it can make babies, and give diseases. It only takes one time to get a disease or get pregnant. Don't buy into all the stuff you see on tv and hear in songs and on the radio. Be more cautious. I'ts not the world your parents lived in anymore. Definately use a condom, the pill or both; and oral sex and mutual masturbation are a good alternative. I don't think that abortion should be considered as a solution to ones mistakes. If you make your bed, you lie in it.

 

Oral sex still spreads STDs.

It's either have sex or don't have sex, and we're only human.

 

That's very true about spreading STDs. I think people should wait until they are old enough to support a family to be haveing sex; and then get married. It doesnt matter to me if its a gay marriage or what. People just need to be more responsible
I have traditional values on this issue.

 

You know most people say abstinence is impossible. But is it really? Look how many people don't have sex until they are 18, 29, 20. They somehow managed to wait what, generally, 6+ years? I think it is agreeable that most youths start having sexual feelings at around 12 or 13 years old. After having sex for the first time most people continue to have sex. What would happen if people actually did wait until marriage to have sex? Who here can agree that once having sex for the first time you crave it like no other? Think of the problems that could be reduced if the population had a single partner and did not have sex until marriage?

I am also surprised at the relation between Christian views on sex before marriage and liberal views on big corporations. It seems people today do not realize the sex related marketing that corporations use to sell just about everything. Food, clothing, music, magazines, electronics, etc... Try being concious of the sexual messages that are being projected in the advertising that we are surrounded by, it is quite fascinating.

BTW, I am one of the biggest hypocrites you could ever imagine on the premarital sex issue, but I do see its negative effects. You can argue all you want that premarital sex is natural, but if you do not see the social problems it causes, you are simply in denial.

 

Sexual tension, yes, but 12 year olds having sex is just plain laughable, for many reasons. Waiting till 18 is okay but not that many people marry at that age, it's just when you become an adult, but sex is not restricted to a certain age limit, soooo. I think as long as you're aware of what you're doing you'll be fine.

 

I realize that, my point was that before you have sex for the first time, the desire is not as great. Once you do finally have sex, you realize how fucking good it is and abstinance is almost out of the question. I personally lost it at 15 and have craved pussy everyday of my life since. However, before that first time, it was just curiosity. I know I couldn't quit now.

The culture of todays youth is changing. They are subjected to much more sex, and at a much younger age than most of us even were. You would be amazed at some of the things that go on at the ages of 12-14 years old. I directly attribute this to the oversexed society that we live in today. More sex=more unwanted pregnancies=more abortions.

 

No Arguement There.

 

Roe v. Wade said that government could not restrict abortion in the first trimester. Government can restrict abortion in the second to preserve the health and well-being of the mother, and is free to outlaw it in the third, except where it is detrimental to health and well-being of the mother. There have been cases since then that significantly weakened that decision, though. Webster v. Reproductive Health Services upheld restrictions, and Planned Parenthood v. Casey removed the trimester system, saying that abortion could be outlawed at the point of fetal viability, which is earlier than before with better medical technology.

While I may agree that a fertilized egg is technically human life, I don't agree that it is a human being and I don't believe it requires "human rights" that we are supposed to give to conscious, sentient, thinking people, and which would be nonexistant were this maximus kid to get his way. I believe the interests of a pregnant female, hopefully not motivated purely by desire for means of birth control (and I would assert that those cases are VERY few), outweigh those of an unthinking fetus. Where the birth of a child would destroy the life, hopes, and dreams of a mother, I think the mother has the right to decide against that.

I do agree that sex is far too prevalent in the media and premarital or noncommital sex is not healthy for a person or for society, but I would believe what I do even if that weren't the case.

Abortion is not murder because the only thing that is being taken away is biochemical life, and the potential for more. No personality will be silenced, a fetus cannot wish to be alive, and cannot be fearful of termination. On top of that, abortion is not done maliciously or to gain anything.

 

I dont have that kind of patience, to read the entire thread to notice that, sorry.

And, I am not completely disagreeing...I think abortions should be performed ASAP...you know, first trimester.

But I have trouble understanding how any woman would have an abortion during the 3rd trimester if it wasnt a medical condition...I would have to believe thats the case, but who knows.

And truthfully, I dont care how far along the woman is in cases of medical conditions....if her life is threatened, I think it should be legal. But, 3rd trimester, for anything else... nah, I dont agree with that either.

Im not sure I even agree with 2nd, but then again, I cant say anything, because I dont know all the possible situations that some women might face...

I cant judge.
And I wont.