Abortion

I agree with you.
Nobody should kill animal ether nor treat them as they do in cage and all.
So being pro-life should also mean being a strict vegetarian, or it is absurd and paradoxal.
You canot be pro-life for some and not others
It must be for all life.
But this isnt here about not respecting the unborned.
It has absolutly nothing to do with that.
I think people who are agianst do not realise that by saying no, they also say no to cases where it is necessary and not jsut the cases who are extreme like late abortion and cases where it is used instead of prevention.
But also to cases where the life of the mum is being put in danger by the pregnacy for different reasons, and the cases where the mother has to be medicated for an illness and the medication will make it dangerous or lethal for the child.
>And many other cases of that kind where serious compound have to be considered and where it makes no sense of not performing the abortion and where it is both dangerous and inconsiderate to dont do so.
Saying no is saying no to those too.
Therefor it is better to respect life, of the unborned but also of their mum and of the already born, like us, and to legislate about htis by making a law that clearly define when it is alowed and when it isnt.
With despcription of the already very known cases where it is the alone way out.
The subject isnt a yes or no matter.
It isnt about one who is pregnant by not taking care and dont want the kid, it is much much more than that.
There is very complicated cases, and ignoring those is both unfair and very respectless to those women.
It is denying them the fact that they are in an impossible situation and ignoring that by saying no, you are condemning them to death..and the child too will die, by the way.. so how more paradoxal saying no instead of making a real low, in the name of respect of life, can this be???????

 

I couldn't even go deer hunting. I couldn't bring myself to kill it. If an animal (like a bear) were to try to kill me than I have no choice. To kill just for the hell of it, I can't do it.

 

Thats very good ethic and values to have.
But you eat meat, dont you?
And the animal died, was killed, in killing factory.
in serial killing.
bang dead electrical or with knife.¨
chickens too
It is life. Do we have the right to kill them and to grow them like we grow maïs or melons, to just eat them after?
Is that rigth?
They got no choice, they are jsut born there and dying there, th one that feet them is the one who is going to kill them.
The same hand that help them out at birth is the hand that will kill them later on. For cows and tyr, its all the same.
So who are we all with our big ideas, and ideal? when it comes to it we do not have the answer.
Because it doesnt make sense.
Shoting a horse for a broken leg.
Would you kill a human that has broken his leg? jsut because he wont be able to run the 100 meter for the olympics any more?
On the contrary, you will save him and pity him.
But for the animal, even those who have served us all their life and made us rich, we jsut shot them like that, because we cant use them anymore.
It is wrong. And we all know it. But we ignore it to dont have to act consequently.
And it is the worse about it.
All have a soul. Even a stone have a soul.
And we are all connected. We differenciate because we are at that level of differenciation. But on a higher plan, those differences cease to exist, adn we are all one.
God doesnt differentiate amoung the different parts of his creation, he is one with it all. We are concious of it, of being created, but animals can often be more consious that we are interconnected than we are, and they are much more innocent than we are. And therefor it is very wrong from us to kill them to can eat them.
Unless life as we know it, doesnt matter in the grand sheme of htings, and in that case so does ours. We dont matter.

 

I understand that perfectly, in fact, in my country, those cases (if the mother is in danger, if the mother has been raped and is a minor, etc) are already contemplated by the law. In those cases is up to the mother to decide if she wants to have the baby or not. But any other case, like being pregnant for having unprotected sex, is not authorized to have an abortion done.
Anyway, even in those cases I wouldn't have an abortion, but that's only my opinion and I'm not trying to impose it on anyone

And yes, as you can see from my signature I'm a vegetarian

 

I didn't say I don't eat meat, darlin. I said I have a hard time killing.

 

I know it very well, love, I understood that, thats why I wrote that.
None of us can judge, if we kill others to eat them, then whom are we to judge and legislate about life?
We also decide upon unborn when life for the grown up is so hard that they dont have time nor money for rising kids.
We dont even need to eat meat. We are not even build physicaly to eat meat.
To digest 100 grams vegetables the body will use 20% of it to can digest it.
because it is its normal source of food.
To digest 100 grams of meat, the body will have to use 60% of that beef to can digest it, because we are not naturally build to eat meat.
We do it for the taste only.
So we kill because blood taste good.
We cannot speak after that about respecting life, or we will have to walk all the way to the end line and be all vegetarian. Which will be a wonderfull idea.

 

If your life or the babies life is in danger, you have no choice, darlin. That's why I don't judge people that have had it done. I just don't like it when others think of it..well, I won't use anything..and if I get that way..I'll just get rid of it. You know..oh, no big deal..I'll go get an abortion.. problem out of the way.

 

I think people should kill their meat, I do as much as I can, I don't go hunting just for the sport of it but because I intend to eat it afterwards, mmmm deer.

animals are lower than us, that's the way it works, in the end we all die but there has to be someone on top, and on this planet it's us.

 

Well, it is already legislated, but soemone had to say ok for abortion because there is special cases. Than if people say no abortion we forbid it, it will be forbidden for all, and thats why it is such a big issue.
Many who say no to baort dont have a clue about the complexity of the problem.
And in all european countries, since 2 decades already, the law is like that that it si doctor and social workers who decide of the necessity of the abortion, and if it is teens alone mums, they send then first to class about babies, so htey can choose and see if htey can take care of baby.
Not just a no abortion law, but soemthing instead, help for young mum, and class about pregnacy and how to take care of babies and how to raise childrens.
A baby doesnt come with a handbook, and women are not born with it either so they just know what ot do.
Also financial help to young mum. some fond for alone mum.
This exist. and the abortion is limitated to 3 months, and even denied if under, like 2 months ½ is already too much.
Mostly girls who had unprotected sex will use day after pill or plan B.
Thats a pill who just close the egg, so the sperm cant enter it, but it is so strong that it provocate menstruations after a few days.
The spermatozoide doesnt enter the egg, doesnt reach the day before 5 days have past, and even after the sprm had enter the egg the egg travel in the womb to set in the palce where the baby will grow from, and only then the cell division begin.
meaning it can go 5 to 10 days before the first cell appear. Before 5 days have past after sexal intercourse, the egg isnt fecondate so it isnt abortion like some ignorate clame it. It is provocated menstruation to hinder the sperm to can enter the egg at all.
Thats day after prevention.
So, if countries were informing all girls and boys and men and women sufficuently about those things abortion will never be used as prevention at all, as in case soemthing happen they could take the day after pill. In fact the limit to can take the pill is 72 hours max, after the sexual intercourse has occured.
Or it isnt delivered.
What we discuss here is to dont say no on abortion, as even we all agree it is not a good thing, and very wrong when doen late and for reasons who cannot be excused, it is nonetheless the alone way out for some.
So it has to be alrigth to can go soemwhere save for htose women to get their pregnacy interupted, if there is danger for them or their child or both.
And for all the other cases where drug or alcohol is involved and the child will be born with multiple handicaps and nobody to take care of it,.
We all mean abortion is wrong, i think all mean that, but we cannot just make a law that make it illegal for everybody.
it must be well balanced, and it is already in most countries.

 

Not saying anything bad about hunters. I just don't know if I could do it.
The sweet deer looking into my eyes.. as to say..why? This is just me, I haven't nothing against others, and I try not to judge anyone. God knows I'm not perfect. I guess if I have live back in the day.. I would have no choice, but to, huh?

 

Leaving in cananda thats easy to say that. If you live in a big city, you cannot do so, and anyway, saying that animal are lower than us is a prejudice. you could also say that american are better than african, and that african are lower than american, because someone has to be on top and it happen to be the americans..huh!?

It doesnt giveyou the rigth to kill african.
so why should it give you the rights to kill animals??????
We are not on top in food chain, we are on top as consciousnes is concerne (well not for all i must sadly admit) and it means responsability and care, not killing and eating all the others.
it means being its concsiousness worthe by acting out of what we can deduce and not out of what we can run with.
first you say life is life no matter if it is a cell, and now oyu distinguish with lower life and superior life.
Excuse me, but that argumentation doesnt work. you got to found arguments that are waterproof and not just some affirmations unprooven who fit good in what you want to defend.
If we distinguish with lower life, then we also got to do it inside the human race.. walk the line until the end. We also do it. But unofficially, like the poors and third world, and all htat kind..
If oyu are rich or a politician you are higher life than if you are from the bronx, oyur life is more worth, from what we can see.
They will sign under the opposit, but will do the contrary..
and then a new born baby is higher life than an unborn first stage 4 weeks old embryo,and we are back where we started..

 

So you'd be okay with abortions as long as someone ate the foetus afterwards?

I find it odd that you have zero qualms about killing animals because they're inferior, but have such reservations about the killing of humans who are quite clearly so inferior as to be a mile down the food chain from us, just because we happen to share a species.

 

Exactly my point, and we should take notice of that. The fact that lies exist on both sides could be used as an excuse to just believe the ones that most appeal to us, but only by the feeble-minded.

But since you accept that the wealthy will always be above the law, the (highly unlikely) existence of abortion burgers doesn't really apply to the legality of abortion, because it is cannibalism which is illegal pretty much everywhere.

If, however, you just want to wax monotonous about a vague moral decline, you can. I won't take much notice though.

 

What has this thread became and what is this?
A fairy bal for personal attacks?
I think that the subject is too serious to mix things together like that and speak of chineese restaurants.
If we are all supposed to come with biaised viewpoints, then lets just shutt up the all bunch of us and close down that thread!
I say the law about abortion does exist and contain all the stuff already who have been discussed in here.
In US they just have to take a pic at existing laws in France and England about the subject and they will know better, and can make their own out of it cause the things are exactly the same everywhere:
Same illness and problematic situations that require an interuption of pregnacy.
Its call VIP Voluntairaly Interuption of Pregnacy.
Sorry that the translated word came to be referring to soemthing else.. but..thats true.
In french, IVG, Interuption Volontaire de Grossesse.
As opposite to miscarriage.
There is in fact not much religious or moral that you can discuss agaisnt those laws as it will be pretty problematic for any religious or other prolife to argue as to kill the mum instead of the child or to kill both just for the sick of not performing an abort, or to say its more moral to let drug addict have babies who willbe born compleetley gagak and difformed and suffering and drug adddicted with small chnace of survival than to perform an abortion at a very early stage.

I dont think much more can be said about the subject.
That sucks, but so do life sometimes.

 

Let it go, Lorna.

 

Thats exactly my view point in what i just wrote above.
Had they read the existing law, they will have see that in fact those who wrote it had been through the whole problematic many times and came out with answers for each problem, and nobody need to be religious or prolife to can think ethicaly. Doctors thenets are to protect and save life, so for them thats pretty evident that between the mumy and the 4 weeks embryon, the mother has to be saved, the embryon wont survive anyway if the mum die, and she can give birth later on in better condition, the dead embryon cant.
All that is pretty evident.
And all forgot to mention that an abort can IN ABSOLULTY ALL CASES, AS A RULE RESULT IN THE WOMAN BECOMING FRIGID AND BEING UNABLE TO HAVE BABIES IN THE FUTURE.
And thats also one more important factor a woman has to face when "chosing" to have an abort.
It could be her last chance to have a baby ever..
and nobody can know or be sure in advance, thats russian roulette.
She can came out alrigth, she can come out frigie, she can come out sterile, or both, and there is no way to know for sure before some years have passed.. so..
I think htat one should also be in it.

 

Hand to God I really did laugh at that, out loud, you made my day, I've read the same crap on some PETA sites, are you one of those people who believe human rights should be granted to animals? LMAO!


BTW, if anything Americans are on the bottom, in general I mean, hey I know some wholesome americans but the lot of them really are fat and/or stupid, I've seen the U.S. in many areas, the accents change, the customs change, the fasion, the trends, but the idiocy stays the same, and if you're going to tell me I'm prejudice, please, look at things like box office grosses, billboard hot 100, the clouthes people wear, and you tell me the majority of americans aren't behind in intelligence from the rest of the 1st world, an african will probably work harder on his job and learn more if they are given the ability to do so, although the u.s. in immigrant country unlike Canada however there's a huge part of the population that's got generations of history for the red stripes and stars, look at U.S. law, if you do enough research you will I am sure come to the conclusion that the U.S. and Canada are not like the rest of the 1st world, in a negative way, but like I've said my dream is to eventually end up living in Switzerland away from all the crap I'm surrounded by now, I'm just happy not to be surrounded by the crap south of the border.

Like I told you last time, I have already gone through with my stance on these issues, I am a man who believes in exception for all actions, except for rape, that's the only act that has no exception, for me even murder has many exceptions, I do support abortion in special circumstances and until the first heart beat, or at least to keep abortion to the 1st trimester, if you lived in Canada and knew the situation you wouldn't be talking like you, I admit this thread is a looooong one and you can't skim through it all but I believe in gradual law changes, in Canada to have abortion unrestricted and paid for, for the first three in all but one provinces is to me a HUGE negative, it's madness I think, but as always that is my opinion.

Again if only you had been in this thread 3 months ago or so. There's such a thing called net worth, I do come from a financially secure family, I have only had a few jobs and they were political, aside from that most thing have been paid for me and if I do get into Law School I will have no problem paying for it, or rather it would be paid for me. As you have been told, I am a Fascist, I am a member of the conservative party only because it's the closest to my ideals, but nowhere near, I have leftist, rightest, centrist views, my views on abortion are typical of that of a fascist, you probably do not know what that means. It is true that money makes the world go round and to achieve power you need wealth, but you don't have to start off wealthy, there have been many poor people who have come a long way to achieve great fortune, race, your ethnicity does have an impact on your athletic ability but aside from that in terms of worth, we are all equal in that sense, we trully are, abortion is a negative to me because the to be individual ( or individuals if it's twins or more ) has potential unknown ( unless the individual is mentally deficient which I see as a reason to abort ). People are always waiting for the next, michael jordan, van goth, curie, gandhi etc, but how can you await those greats when there is a substantial chance they will not see the light of day, this is my reasoning against abortion, I don't believe in morals or ethics and God to me is dark matter, it exists for the purpose of existence, not a benevolent or menevolent force, death is death, to me there is no heaven nor hell, if there is life after death I don't believe it will be affected by our actions in this life, and I also believe that our planet is as of now insignificant as is our race, after all we have only landed on the moon ( supposedly ). So you see I go along with the benefit vs negative system, if something is more beneficial to kill than to save, then kill it, abortion can be used as a benefit but it is in a small percentage, most of the time it is a negative because that embryo or fetus has not yet been defined, there is no question of whether or not it's better to have it terminated or to have it pass term, this
is why I am against abortion in general.

Hopefully this clears some air between us.

 

I wasn ttalking to you at all i was talking befroe to that person who was attacking you.. so youi got it wrong, and saying it was wrong to use this thread to attack people and also to compare with reastauration.
as for oyu being a selvdeclared facist as somone ELSE said, for me it means that you have stated "i am a facist" . If you didnt then you are not. i dont give a shit what political parti you are in or out of, nor what your family bak for a loiving nor how many wash up you did at a local restaurant to apy your education.
be less parano and more understnading.
What i wrote is not about oyu but about abortion.
I was talking about differentiate higher and lower form of life.
and if we begin then fact is it goes also inside the human race.
i dont know you are rich, and didnt thougth of you whne i wrote it.
if you feel pointed must be because you got a complex, not because i was htinking of you.
A diplomates life is more important than a guy from the bronx, if the dip got in trouble max ressources wil be put on to save his ass, if its the bronx guy he can just die, nobody care.
same with being above the law.
thats what i ment with higher and lower existences.
But i am afraid that oyu mist my point entirely.
I said no more personal attacts and that all had been already taken up.
but oyu made a defense agaisnt peronal attack as if i had made one against you...
chill out baby, i aint after your goûter.
I dont know about canada.
I know in france and indanmark and england and most european countries, and there the rules and legislations are very strict
You can get a day after pill by simle phone call to your doc, or by night to emergency doc, and pic it up at any pharmacy or nigth pharmacy immediatly.
They got it right.
this way abortion risks or unwanted pregnacies are lowered with 50%
then if you didnt knew the pill didnt worked or the condom broke, or got baked while drunk and sleeping.. there is aabortion.
you cant know it before being about a week or 4 days late with your menstruations, so when you know it, depending if you got pregnant jsut after oyur menstruations or several weeks after, you are already 2 to 4 weeks ahead..
it doesnt kleave much time tomake the decision and appointement and all that.
it also can take several weeks from the moment you ask to the momenet it being evaluated to the moment you get the appointement to the clinic or hospital . In Europe it is official hospital only who do it. it is legislated and controled by the state, therefor.
no private clinic accepted.
So even if detected early on and acted upon fast, you can already be on your 6th to 8th week before you can have an abortion.
For it to can be accepted, there must be medical reasons, or specific reasons who justifie it. If you have none, it your application is declined.
Instead you are redirected to a social worker and pregnacy planing with schooling in preparation for the birth, and care taking of the baby and budgeting.
No countries in europe have a system where oyu just ocme and get an abort.
It has never been like that. the law about abortion was written by doctors and member of the comitee of ethic.
I dont think they have such in Canada. Nor in USA.
In fact the thread is about abortion in USA, not in Canada.
Thats why i said they should copy paste the existing law in france and england, and voilá, they will have what they need.
This and some betterment in youth information about contraceptives and about save sex and about day after P-pill. I mean you got 3 days to take it, its better than wait and get into trouble.
And they should also educate the physisist, to talk to all teenage from 15 -16 years about prevention and ask them if they have bf and plan to have sexual intercourse, and to prescribe them p-pill. They do so in Europe.
Doctors ask teenage girls if they have a boy friend and if htey plan to have sexual intercourse and recommand them to take prevention.
Condom isnt enough specially with teenage boys who dont all are able to take care, it is best that the girl is protected.
A doc who receive a teenage or 20-28 years old girl, will always ask her if she has a bf, and what se take as prevention.
This way a big part of the risks are eliminated at their source.
What remain is what we have spoken about already.
And as we all agree about the one and the other then, case closed.

I just pointed that being agaisnt abortion means against it no matter what.
But, thinking abortion is not a good hting is differnet.
It means you think it cannot be legal no matter the reason for it.
so we are on the same wave.
just be carefull what signal oyu send.
no means no no matter what.
What you ment to say was, "
'Abortion yes, but legislated to only a restrain number of cases where the circumstances make it necessary for medical or circumstantial reasons who are aggravating". and " no abortion after the third month can be performed nor used instead of prevention, meaning that when there is no other reason to interupt the pregnancy but the mother not wanting to have a child now, the abortion i not legal and will be denied."
Thats the way to put it without making big splash and everybody can only agree with that one.
That law already exist in most countries in Europe.
Abortion at 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th month are forbidden in Europe and considered as murder and punished by the law with jail for 20 years of time.
The reason for that being that babies borned too early at that stage of the embryo have proved to survive, even if the child is very weak for the rest of his life, and is therefor ment as being "life sustaining" and can therefor not be refered to in the same way as for the embryo at early stage.

So make that law in Canada and USA.

Anyway, who could ever want to have an abort at 5th month in her pregnancy????
Might happen, but must be a margen case, under 1% of the total amount of abortion.
here everybody can only condemn that kind of htings and be scandalise. It is murder, no doubt about it.

As for you van gogh thing, sorry, but third world is waiting and thats the same there too, and not because of abortion but repression of classes and cast selection, and globalisation impact on the poorest, and also in the bronx thats everyday Mozart who get assassinated.
And if mumy dont have money to pay the rent it aint going to make any van gogh cause there will be no penny to buy painting nor art school...and they migth end up living behind wall mart in some paper box.

So look more on the living existing kid and the betterment of their life and education like making school and higher education free and hospital and doctor free in USA, just as they have in Europe, than on supressing abort, if your reason is to have a new gandhi..

 

I'm wish my momma had a right to murder me in the womb, then i wouldn't have to put up with all this bullshit.

 

. . . . . and none of you would have to put up with me !