After the eighth school shooting in seven weeks – some gun control proposals

I dont even think the focus should be on banning ARs, it should be on more effective background checks

But it seems a bit disingenous to act like mass shootings that occurred in public places rather than schools dont count for some reason

 

That is incorrect. The AR-15 is not any deadlier than any other semi-auto or lever-action rifle that has a large magazine.

I did not see anything in these articles that stated that the AR-15 was deadlier than any other semi-auto or lever-action rifle with a large magazine.

This article even states that the AR-15 is a lot less deadly than some other ordinary rifles (which is true).

"Dean Hazen, owner of The Gun Experts in Mahomet, Ill., and a master firearms instructor, said the reason mass shooters are turning to the AR-15 is due to a 'copy-cat' mentality more than any feature of the rifle.

'It's really just a perception thing,' Hazen said. 'There are rifles that are more powerful and more dangerous than that, but they're not being used.'

Hazen said the AR-15 has 'gotten a bad rap.' He believes mass shooters generally don't know much about guns and choose the AR-15 because of the reputation it has gotten from being used in other mass shootings.

'Thank God they don't know any better because if they did they would use much more effective weapons,' Hazen said."

These rifles are only deadlier when there are large magazines attached to them. Without a large magazine attached to them, they have no particular deadliness as far as killing a lot of people is concerned.

In other words, it is not the rifle that is dangerous, but the large magazines.

The Supreme Court has said very little on the scope of the Second Amendment, and had not said anything at all about the level of scrutiny. However, a number of lower courts have applied intermediate scrutiny. These lower courts haven't usually paid much attention to reality in their rulings. But they have been clear in stating that intermediate scrutiny applies.

They don't have superior range over any other rifle. They are normal rifles.

They have faster firepower than a bolt action rifle, but rapid follow up shots have a legitimate use in hunting, and are a vital part of self defense.

 

poor children must be scared to go school in usa. so sad for them.

 

Don't be so sad, my three go everyday and don't give it a second thought. 1 in college, 1 in high school, 1 in middle school. Their friends don't appear concerned one little bit either. And we've talked about it.

 

That you think civil rights is about gun ownership is bad. Just don't think I would use that terminology to describe this situation is all.

 

I think that the thing about pistol grips is the way that you hold, aim, and control the weapon shifts dramatically. Just my first inclination. It suggests that the operator doesn't intend to operate their gun one way, but another.

 

You suggest to me that you dont know anything about guns

 

The 2nd A aint about hunting.

 

Deadlier isn't the issue. All weapons in a sense are equally deadly, in that dead is dead. Some, however, kill more rapidly from a distance than others. No need to single out the AR 15. Any weapon of equal or superior range and firepower could be added to the list. You say "These rifles are only deadlier when there are large magazines attached to them. Without a large magazine attached to them, they have no particular deadliness as far as killing a lot of people is concerned." And guns in general are only deadly when they're loaded. Fact is, large magazines can be attached to those guns, making them deadlier. Without the guns, the large magazines are also harmless.

[QUOTE="Toggle Almendro, post: 8196713, member: 302541] "The Supreme Court has said very little on the scope of the Second Amendment, and had not said anything at all about the level of scrutiny. However, a number of lower courts have applied intermediate scrutiny. These lower courts haven't usually paid much attention to reality in their rulings. But they have been clear in stating that intermediate scrutiny applies. [ /Quote]
Citations?

 

If all weapons are equally deadly then why do most states legally not let you use AR15 .223 caliber for deer hunting because it is too weak and ineffective in killing deer.

 

This is getting to be ridiculous. I've provided a list of mass shootings, the weapons used, and the number of people killed. Why is it that in spite of having the facts put right before your eyes, you revert back to your default position that the AR-15 is the weapon of choice of mass shooters? Do you believe that saying it over and over will change the fact that it is not? You've provided links with provocative titles designed to sway people who are incapable of interpreting a simple list like the one I compiled.

Let me put this in very simple terms. The AR-15 is not the weapon of choice for mass shooters. As evidence of this, I will refer you to the list below . . . again. If, after reading it, you still don't understand what it is telling you about the weapon of choice for mass shooters, I have also summed up the conclusion of its details for you.
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Las Vegas: Twenty-two semi-automatic rifles (58 killed).
San Francisco UPS shooting: two pistols (3 killed).
Orange County, Florida: pistol (5 killed).
Fort Lauderdale, Florida: pistol (5 killed).
Burlington, Washington: Semi-automatic rifle (5 killed).
Orlando, Florida: Sig Sauer semi-automatic rifle and pistol (49 killed).
San Bernardino, California: Two semi-automatic rifles and two pistols (14 killed.
Colorado Springs, Colorado: Semi-automatic rifle (3 killed).
Umpqua Community College: Five pistols (9 killed.
Chattanooga, Tennessee: Semi-automatic rifle, pistol, and shotgun (5 killed).
Charleston, South Carolina: Pistol (9 killed).
Isla Vista, California: Three pistols and two knives (6 killed).
Fort Hood, Texas: Two pistols (3 killed).
Washington, D.C.: Shotgun and pistol (12 killed).
Santa Monica, California: Semi-automatic rifle and pistol (5 killed).
Newtown, Connecticut: Semi-automatic rifle and pistol (27 killed).
Brookfield, Wisconsin: Pistol (3 killed).
Minneapolis, Minnesota: Pistol (6 killed).
Oak Creek, Wisconsin: Pistol (6 killed).
Aurora, Colorado: Semi-automatic rifle and pistol (12 killed).
Oakland, California: Pistol (7 killed).
Seal Beach, California: Three pistols (8 killed.
Tuscon, Arizona: Pistol (6 killed).
Manchester, Connecticut: Pistol (8 killed).
Huntsville, Alabama: Pistol (3 killed).
Fort Hood, Texas: Pistol (13 killed).
Binghamton, New York: Two pistols (13 killed).
Dekalb, Illinois: One shotgun and three pistols (5 killed).
Omaho, Nebraska: Semi-automatic rifle (8 killed).
Blacksburg, Virginia: Two pistols (32 killed).
Salt Lake City, Utah: One shotgun and one pistol (5 killed).
Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania: One shotgun, one pistol, and one bolt-action rifle (5 killed).
Golita, California: Pistol (6 killed).
Red Lake Indian Reservation, Minnesota: One shotgun and two pistols (9 killed).
Meridian Mississippi: One shotgun and one semi-automatic rifle (5 killed).
Wakefield, Massachusetts: Semi-automatic rifle, shotgun, and pistol (7 killed).
Honolulu, Hawaii: Pistol (7 killed).
Fort Worth, Texas: Two pistols (7 killed).
Atlanta, Georgia: Four pistols and one hammer (9 killed).
Columbine, Colorado: One semi-automatic rifle and one shotgun (13 killed).
Jonesboro, Arkansas: Three semi-automatic rifles (5 killed).
Garden City, New York: Pistol (6 killed).
San Francisco, California: Three pistols (8 killed).
Olivehurst, California: One shotgun and one .22 rifle (4 killed).
Iowa City, Iowa: Pistol (4 killed).
Killeen, Texas: Two pistols (22 killed).
Jacksonville, Florida: One semi-automatic rifle and one pistol (10 killed).
Stockton, California: One semi-automatic rifle and one pistol (5 killed).
Edmon, Oklahoma: Three pistols (14 killed).
San Ysidro, California: One pistol, one semi-automatic rifle, and one shotgun (21 killed).
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Of those 50 incidents, 18 involved semiautomatic rifles. Of those 18 incidents, 12 involved shotguns and pistols along with the semiautomatic rifles, and 6 of those incidents resulted in more than 10 deaths.

Of the incidents involving handguns, 6 resulted in more than 10 deaths.

 

Its identity politics bro. It has nothing to do with the AR15. It has everything to do with the way the people who own AR15s are percieved.

And how gun grabbers percieve themselves. As enlightened individuals whos vision is to make the world a better place as they see fit for everyone else.

 

Our civil rights include the right to have guns for self defense. That's just a fact.

No. There is no significance to pistol grips at all, and no justification for banning them.

 

I don't see whatever gun you are referring to, but I know that there are lots of different varmint rifles.

Some achieve much higher velocities than the .223 Remington.

As with all the other assault weapon features, there is no justification for banning it.

Restricting ammo capacity (within reason) would probably pass muster with the courts.

Unless it was tied to an assault weapons ban, in which case it will likely be struck down as collateral damage when the courts begun enforcing the Second Amendment and strike down all assault weapons legislation.

No, that these features are harmless is a fact.

It means that only gun control that can be justified with a good reason is allowed by the Constitution.

 

If a type of gun is no deadlier than a normal gun, then there is no justification for banning it.

Only if they have a large magazine attached to them.

All rifles tend to have long range.

Firepower does not depend on the gun at all, but on the size of the magazine.

Restricting all guns that accept detachable magazines is much more intrusive than simply restricting large magazines. When restricting a right, it is supposed to be done with minimal intrusion.

Second Amendment does not apply to assault weapons: en banc 4th...