After women have a child

my boss has a freezer full of deer that says different.

he's the guy who's life philosophy involves the phrase "if I saw it die, it's not roadkill, it's fresh meat"

 

Such bullshit.I seriously thought it was a joke at 1st

I AM a Stay at home mom-but to be completely honest I would RATHER be a working mom. Hubby would rather be a stay at home dad. If we were in a situation where I could make as much money as he does We would.If we were weathy enough to not need to work- i probably would get some kind of job-just because i ENJOY it.

He is much more of a home maker- awesome cook,neat- and a WONDERFUL father and care giver... I would RATHER go out and be a productive and earn money - to provide for my family.I feel better mentally when I do.

Granted. I also do not think my hubby should work all the time. when we can afford it he works parttime- yeah we give up extravagances so he can spend time with his family
- which is of greater importance to us.

I DO think PARENTS should get time off -when their children are born and very young.
I do not think that is just a role for the mother- he has JUST as much a part of this parenting thing as i do.

Yes, i breastfed. Extended nursed even- AND when she was nursing WE BOTH worked part-time. -it called a fucking breastpump- and before breastpumps women hand expressed milk, or has wet nurses.
We worked Differnt shifts, so our child was with us more than in daycare. We had the same family day off every week. I actually really liked that set up.

I think it is actually important to teach my daughter that a woman can provide for her family,earn money , be responsible- just as much as a man can.I also think it is important she sees that fathers can be good care givers - loving and nurturing as well as mothers.

 

Right on.

 

so, you're angry about the gender roles argument more than the one parent shouldn't have to work argument?

 

they are one and the same, a lot of the time.

neither parent should HAVE to work any more or less than they want. each couple (if there is a couple... a LOT of people have kids on their own, and do JUST fine) needs to come up with the situation they want and feel most comfortable with. for us, it will probably be both of us working part time, kids never being with babysitters. with BOTH of us taking at least a month off during the time when our baby is new. at least that's what i'm hoping.

what i get frustrated with is the set ideals of what each gender is "supposed" to act like. what about people wanting to act like themselves?

 

I parented my nephew full time when he was NEW, his mom had to work, his dad had to work, to make ends meet. I have to date, changed more diapers than the both of them, it helps that that whole diaper thing tapered off, but, yeah. it's not their faults, and I was only in a position where I could do that because I had no drivers license and I couldn't get a job because of that (I could have, but it would have been too hard to actually execute, and my family needed me.)

I am happy to have had that experience, and I do not feel that for a moment it compromises, or even has anything to do with my masculinity. I don't think gender roles should have anything to do with parenting, and further, I think maternity leave should be meted out in a more equitable fashion, certain employers will only give men their analogue leave if they get a vasectomy, or similar procedure. which is totally wack

(I'd actually like to see a paradigm where each couple gets a certain amount of total parental leave, ~125-130% of that currently offered for the individual parent, to be divided as they see fit through the childs first two years of life.)

 

Yes more so ,but still both.
In america we have "maternity leave" for women- other countries have paid leave for both the father AND the mother when a child is born- some for up to 2 yrs-
THAT I agree with. I think when a baby is just born parents SHOULD take time off-they both need that time off with new baby IMO...not sure how long,(I know I was kinda happy to go back to work at the 6 week mark).

The one parent argument bothers me because like I said- when we both worked part time it worked really well for us.Basically,there isn't a "way it should be" for every family,its all very individual.
Some homes run better with one parent working,some better with both working.

 

I respect wahtever other people choose. This is just the way my husband and i choose. The most important thing in our relationship for me is to be able to appreciate each other and praise each other. Make each other feel valued. I have a temper and am moody, but I don't think my husband ever feels unappreciated. I am working on expressing the importance to him of praising me. He is very accepting, but has a hard time giving out compliments for my acheivments (but not on my looks). That is our biggest problem, but we both work on things like this together.
This is a big concern for me when I do stay at home. I never want to feel underappreciated or taken for granted.
Also, just to let everyone know we make desicions together. Just because I want to be a stay-at-home mom in the future, doesn't mean I am some doormat woman who allows decisions to be made without me.

 

yeah! women HAVE to be paid less for the same skills because they just want to have a job...

 

I was more thinking that everyone is paid less because the workforce almost doubled.

 

Yep, and I can. I made more than my husband with my first job here. I am going for my masters next year.
You say you wish it could be the other way , but it's not feasible.My choices and hard work allow my views. I have it all. I am a part-time behavioralist and get to stay home and have time for hobbies. I think that bothers a lot of people.
I AM A FEMINIST. I BELIEVE IN CHOICES AND I CREATED OPTIONS FOR MYSELF BECAUSE I AM SMART< SAVVY AND INDEPENDENT. NOW I AM CHOOSING MY OPTION SO BACK OFF.
I am sorry you can't do what you want to do, but I can do what i want to do and am.

 

ps-i read this thread to my husband and he cracked up. he told me to tell you I am supporting his ass in 10 years when he retires LOL. He's kidding...I think.

 

Do NOT turn this into a pissing contest about how great you are ,and your "perfect" fucking situation is. condecending assholish bullshit.


Your original statement was FAR from feminist .
Your statement was ALL husbands SHOULD , and all women should stay home.
THAT i disagree with.You are backpedalling now- Your views are FINE I don't give two shits if you WANT to be a stay at home mom- but you are way the fuck out of line if you think you can determin that THAT is how it should be for every family.

GOOD for fucking you if you would rather be a stay at home mom and have your hubby provide. That is fine and dandy- and i am doing it now, it not bad and i know i will never regret this time with my daughter.

I will appreciate if you NEVER talk down to me like that again.Your status does not bother me-but your fucking attitude about it does.

 

Hey, you talked down to me first. Don't start shit you can't finish.
Yes, if men have children imo they should be able to financialy support them. As I stated before this was my opinion and I didn't try to inflict or force it on anyone. All I did is said it.
You said how you wanted to show your daughter she can provide for her family. I stated in my orginal post I will go back to work when Andy retires and stays home.
I made good and healthy choices in going to college, working my ass off putting myself through it and choosign a financialy secure husband. I did everything to give myself freedome and choice and FREEDOM AND CHOICE ARE THE FOUNDATION TO FEMINIST THEORY.
I made myself into what I am. I have books I can show my girls with me in it, while i make a cake and wink at my husband across the room. Now that's a woman with options. That is a STRONG and INDEPENDENT woman.

 

then your arguement isn't for a wage gap, and there has been persistant difference in wages between men and women into the beginning of history. your arguement would be for a general lowering of wages across the board, not for any inequality.

women are paid less than men for work of the same level and caliber. and its not because they've done anything wrong by wanting to pursue a career.

how can you blame any type of wage gap on women working? what basis do you have for such a claim?

the human population has been growing exponentially over the past two or three centuries. at the same time technological advances and political changes have rendered one job obsolete right after another, continously. yet also at the same time new technologies and political changes open up new career choices.

there didn't used to be ANY computer engineers, now its a booming industry. likewise, there are no longer any dog whippers or pony express riders around anymore. the job market has changed dramatically, and the human population has exploded. its only now slowing down slightly with the advent of birth control.

with so much change, there's no comparing today to one or two hundred years ago, when essentially all women were expected to stay home and not pursue a career of any sort, unless they wanted to become nuns? women having the freedom to choose a profession outside of the home is VERY far from the only thing to have drastically changed the job market in the past couple hundred years.

you might as well say black people are to blame for their low wages, because if they had just remained unpaid laborers own by white men we wouldnt have to pay them.

you could also argue along your lines that any other minority is to blame for being paid less, because if they didn't have the nerve to look for jobs we wouldn't pay them less.

so the wage gap is because women want to work? if we didn't have more workers to pay, we wouldnt have to pay them less than others. super

but you say EVERYONE is paid less because women work. but then thats not a wage gap, so i really can't make heads or tails of exactly what you're trying to say.

but really, those bitches should be in the kitchen

 

okay, you need to read all of my posts in this thread, there is tons of clarification you either missed, or let slip by.

 

Seriously bella.You are out of line.
I DO NOT CARE how great you are - i do not care about your books your weath or your husband.. i don't.
quit harping on your perfection- as if I am soo much less than you. I have done many things I am proud of none of which i feel the need to brag about to prove my point. IT IS condescending.
I was disagreeing with your statement NOt with you,and NOT with your CHOICE to be a stay at home mother.
I do not think being sally home maker is less feminist than working.Feminism is the right,and the ability to do both,or either.To make that choice

YOU posted that that is the way it should be FOR ALL- to which I disagreed- and even explained my personal situation to try to enlighten you as to why.You seek to rip that apart and look down on me instead.
WTFever.

 

i missed one page. but your arguement is essentially the same.

the job market sucks because women want to work to feel empowered...?

its b.s.

 

you are seeing portions of the whole

the job market doubled in size, the job market doesn't suck entirely because of this (though it is a contributing factor, our economy isn't fully tooled to this volume) and it's not "women wanna be entitled so the job market is as it is" it is

there have been societal pressures that have forced two income households, these pressures are unhealthy, I don't give a fuck if it's the woman or man who works, I just think we need to be in a place where one income housholds are the norm again

really, most of the problem is that people are greedy fucks though, and that's not changing.

 

Why would I look down on you when you are a stay-at-home mom? Isn't that what i said I ultimatley wanted to be?
I also never claimed to be perfect. All I did is say I made good choices and created a life for myself where I will always have choice and freedom.
Also, my husband is in the military so I don't know where you get off saying 'my wealth'. More like he is good at finances, has perfect credit and we are both working. See, I am not perfect. we WORKED our asses off. My husband for 10 years in the military and me for going through college and working hard when my friends were all partying and going away for college.
You're mistaking us having our shit together and me defending myself for me telling you I am better than you.
You seem like such an angry person. Even in your picture. It's like everything screams agression. imo that means you're especially fragile on the inside so I am going to stop my post now in realizing that.