AIDS - it may not exist (huh?)

if you have any friends or family members sick with HIV or Aids then you would already know that those problems DO exist

 

Alright, this drives me insane, but I'm going to say this as nicely as I can. First off there is absolutly no doubt that the Human Immuno Deficiancy Virus (hiv) is the predecursor to AIDS. People, please, if theres any doubt in your mind, see a competent doctor. There is no such thing as a toxin. Anyone who uses the word Toxin in a medical context other then a poisionous substance is a quack, and you should look elsewhere for medical advice.

Any advantage you do get through new age medicine is psychosomatic, if you think that your getting better, you really can get better, and this is true with new age medicine, vodoo medicine, western medicine, and meditation or prayer to think that your getting better. While there is nothing wrong with that, anyone who tells you that they can cure you of AIDS or cancer is the worst kind of lying scumbag. What these people offer is a placebo, and often they scavenge the pockets of the sick, who are desperate to hear that they are ok. And if there advice causes someone to overlook their condition while its still treatable and therefore die of something preventable thanks to the work of these 'doctors', the quacks deserve to rot in prison for neglegent homicide.

You have to know where my heart is here, I really feel sorry for anyone who is facing serious medical condition, and I understand that they feel desperate for help. It sickens me that these quacks are praying on people during the toughest times in their lives.

 

I understand what your trying to get across, but are you saying that if it's not conventional medecine then it's fake?

 

To add some substance to the conversation, having known someone who is HIV+, I'm pretty sure it's legit.

 

Not necessarily, there are some complementary or "alternative" forms of medecine which have effects besides psychosomatic or placebo effects... but if they work, they work for good reason. And if they work, it will be shown in rigorous, controlled, double-blind studies. There is always science which we don't understand yet and we should keep an open mind. But to leap from that piece of general good practice to accepting unproven, untested, anti- or pseudo-science practices like those of "Dr Clark" is a leap too far.

One thing which is perfectly clear is that no such "alternative cures" should be used instead of known and properly tested medecine. And if someone is selling you their books or cures or "zappers" and telling you they can cure a disease which the best academic minds in the world cannot yet cure then they are obviously a charlatan. As said in a post above, they are extremely dangerous and profit from people's fears and hopes. They also thrive on ignorance.

 

Retrofishe, I'm sorry to hear about your boyfriend. My deepest sympathy goes to both of you, and I hope for the best. I'm also glad to hear that hes feeling better.

Let me explain my cynicisim about this. When I was 13 a good friend of mine died in a car accident. I was also very close to the family and afterwards tried spending a lot of time with them. It was a very tough time for them and they were a very devought Catholic family. They were approached by the clergy who said that since he hadn't confessed his sins before he died, he would remain in limbo. The only way he could get into heaven was a ceromony. A very expensive cerremony that the family couldn't afford. They loved their daughter so much that they sold there house to pay for the ritual. I was really torn, this was very comforting to the family, but it was breaking them. I loved my friend and her family, and it broke my heart that they were beaing taken advantage of when they were most vulnerable.

I'm going to school being trained as a medic, and there is still much we don't know about medicine. There is a very powerful mind body connection that 'conventional' medicine doesn't really fully understand. This is called a placebo effect. Many people, especially ill people *understandably* get very defensive when they hear this. But all this effect is an extension of that mind body connection. If you keep a positive state of mind, and believe that you can get better, you really can get better.

There is much more to learn about medicine, and like I said, western medicine has been unable to fully comprehend this mind body connection, and these are the main benifits to things such as alternative medecine or prayer. There can be other advantages of alternative medecine, but if there are, those benifits should be demonstrated in a controlled enviorment, and added to conventional medecines understanding of physiology.

I have absoultly no problem with the comfort that prayer or alternative medecine offers. In fact it can be benificial, and it that sense I'm all for it.

Unfortuanatly there are many practicing alternative medecine who pray on people at the times when they are most desperate. They charge extravegent prices and say that There is no value in conventional medicine, and sadly enough, people listen to them. There are several cases of an alternative medecine practitione telling a person with a small tumor that it can be fixed through alternatvie medecine, and that they should stop seeing their doctors. While they hear what they want to, the cancer spreads and it eventually becomes inoperable. This is where alternative medecine goes from harmless comfort to sadastic ignorance. These people are the worst kinds of lying scavenging evil human beings, praying on the fears of the desperate. When they ridicule away thousands of years of tested apllied medicine for pseudo-scientific miracle cures, they are liers who take advantage of people who are most vulnerable.

I guess it varys from practitioner to practitioner, but there are many unsavory people in the new age medicine game. They should never replace the advice of a trained medical professional. My best wishes go to your boyfriend.

 

Well said and with much greater sensitivity than me. I second everything Lodui just said.

 

I tottaly agree, there are many quacks out there, but that does not just go for alternative practicioners, many 'conventional' doctors are the same, many think they can give you a pill and send you out of the office.

no matter what kind of medicine you prefer, it's still up to YOU to make the choice of who's advice you want to follow.
I'm not gonna say that one kind is better then the other. I personally think that there are better ways of dealing with things then pills and antibiotics etc...
example #1. I suffer from unbelievable bad periods. for a really long time i was going to the hospital, then they just perscribed me tylenol 3's and something else to take during that time. I was so friggin druged up that i couldn't function. then i went on to birthcontrol to regulate my hormones and stop the pain. yeah, sure it worked and it was a proven aid, but then i started getting my period three times a month, migranes, weight problems, major mood swings!!!!!!
all these 'conventional methods' took the pain away, but screwed me up pretty bad, when i told the doctors, they either said to stick through it for another few months, or they put me on another one.
when i decided to stop taking the doctors advice and get off the pill/needle i went to the health food store and asked the guy about something that would help, he took me to the tea isle and gave me a box of peppermint tea. then he said to fill a sock with some rice, tie the end and put it in the microwave for afew minutes. then put it on my belly.
the alternatice methods work just aswell as the conventional methods, but without the nasty side affects or the high cost.
example #2 when i was a young child and had a fever, instead of pumping me full of antibiotics, my mother watched the temperature closely, gave me lots of fluids and made me as comfortable as possible. now aslong as my temp. was not dangerously high, she let the fever burn, and i got over it with a higher immunity to it. i don't think they ever got really bad, but she wasn't stupid, if my temp did get to high she would take me to the hospital. I havn't had a fever in many many years, cuz i've built up a defense to it. I'm not saying that you should just take your chances and see if you make it to the morning, i'm just saying that there are ways to fix things without filling your body full of 'helpfull' chemicals.

 

Yes but the point is to make an informed choice, not just a guess or a personal preference as to what you choose to believe.

Folk remedies like the ones you describe can sometimes make sense in terms of treating minor ailments or symptoms of a wider problem. In the case of the period cramps / sock of warm rice, it's not unreasonable to assume that this might have something to do with heat and muscle relaxation - not to mention the already explored complex psychosomatic effect. The drug treatments you tried alter hormonal balance which can cause side effects. As for fever, of course the body's immune system can cure many infections without help. If however you had picked up a fatal bacterial infection, your mother would have been extremely foolish to refuse or delay administering the penicillin which could have saved your life.

But period pains and fever are not the same as fatal viral infections like HIV/AIDS. And there is no folk remedy which will stop cancerous cells reproducing themselves. These illnesses are on an entirely different scale and work according to different mechanisms.

Acquired or folk wisdom has its place, and knowing, say, the properties of certain plants in treating symptoms of an illness can be valuable. But it's the rejection of learning in favour of this "common sense" approach which is the real problem. Even more dangerous again is the kind of "cure for cancer" quackery passing itself off as science, with plausible-sounding explanations to those who don't know any better.

 

Reading the stuff from the original links I posted ~ I was under the impression that although AIDS exists, it is a collection of different conditions rather than an illness in it's own right. So yes, it does exist but not as a seperate entity ...

Someone with AIDS dies from an AIDS related illness and not AIDS itself. Surely if AIDS testing in Africa is done merely on symptoms then there is a huge case that these people are just becoming ill by other means. (Like malnutrition)

The arguments say that AIDS is not caused by HIV ... this is something I don't understand, but I keep an open mind because I do not trust the governments and ruling corporations of this planet ... most of them are motivated by greed and it is something I think we need to be cautious of ... They don't always get things right, they have their own agenda and they don't always work for the good of humanity.

However, there is a lot to be said for a holistic approach to health matters. What we eat, drink and breathe (plus how we deal with stress on our bodies) all play vital parts in how long our lives will last.

 

AIDS is a disease of the immune system making people susceptible to dying from otherwise non-fatal diseases.

AIDS is simply the final stage of HIV. If you accept that HIV exists then AIDS also exists by definition.
http://msms.essortment.com/hivaidsdiffere_pdo.htm

 

I know what the definitions are.

But it is odd (if true) that if someone has the symptoms of an AIDS related illness in Africa ,they do not get tested for HIV, they just get an AIDS diagnosis.

But, even if they were tested negative they still get treated with AIDS drugs rather than the drugs designed to combat their particular illness.

So why are some people with negative HIV test results still being diagnosed and treated as having AIDS?

 

If you're that paranoid, check out http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org . They're real doctors who work for little or no pay, and they STILL agree that HIV does cause AIDS. It's not just governments and drug companies that say that. As the other guy said, you die from other illnesses when you have AIDS because it weakens your immune system, but you still die indirectly from AIDS.

 

people are idiots. there are so many ridiculous AIDS theories out there (i've heard them form ppl i grew up even here). how can someone think it doesn't esixt because of some skewed results. i've seen first hand, i watched someone i love whither away and die as a result of AIDS related complications.