am i the only person who associates boobs with porn anymore?

If we ever meet, remind me to make sure to check the weather forecast! Gives a whole new meaning to "stiff northeasterly breeze"

 

i agree with most of the points here. if the person is trying to prevoke a sexual response then yes it is porn, if however they are not-as we were doing at be you tif all days then, no its not. (well i speak for myself there, not sure what fleassy and jc's motives were ) i do believe that the female body has had so much emphasis put upon it, not all of it wanted either. i mean some people get turned on at the thought of a mother breast feeding her baby, and other get revolted by it. thats what boobs are there for!!! sorry to burts your bubble guys but our breasts ARE NOT FOR YOU! thats right, so we should be allowed to show them if its hot, to wonder around like the males with our tops off. if anything we should hide them frim thirsty babies who might lunge at you!

just my tuppence. and dok-you know your just jealous as you weren't there to see it!he he
namaste
x x x

 

Interestingly, mothers are top of that list. Many mothers are alarmed to find that they experience sexual pleasure from breast feeding.

Meng's absolutely right. There's a very plausible theory that runs thus..... sexual signalling in our ancestors was in the form of the presentation of buttocks. As we evolved to walk upright, and started fucking face-to-face, sexual signalling was transferred to the breasts, which can therefore be seen to represent replacement butt-cleavage! Bizarre but probably true.

I absolutely agree. Nobody should be able to repress women's freedom to walk around topless. I do think it'd be a bit of a shame to see breasts de-eroticised though. Then again, in our lovely climate, I doubt we'd see many naked breasts anyway!

Y'know, considering how you girls are always arguing that men shouldn't fixate on the breasts as a sexual object, you constantly seem pretty desperate for us to see them this way! Looking for validation by any chance?

 

You know , I have breast fed three babies ( not all at once obviously) and I'm sorry to say I experienced no sexual pleasure from it at all......and I approached the whole thing with hope . And when you think about it,it would be a trifle inconvenient if you achieved orgasm every time you breast fed a baby, especially since you can be feeding several times an hour in those early growth spurt stages..........

In fact for most women I know, the whole breast feeding thing seems to depress the sex drive and that to me makes sense, after all total breast feeding on demand can work as a contraceptive ( don't try it folks it is unreliable..) surely biologically that is how it is driven to make sure the children are spaced to give them a higher chance of survival.....

But to get back to the original question, I think that boobs are associated with porn in this culture...and I guess Josie that what you are thinking about are Fleassy and Rainbow Dews painted boobie pictures. Personally, I don't find them pornagraphic, I like them, there is something innocent and joyous about them, but then I am a sad old hippy..........I will say though ,that I wonder if every one would be so enthusiastic about them if Fleassy and Rainbow Dew grandmas were to paint their breasts and frolic..................

 

Uhhhh.... this would be why I said 'many', as opposed to 'all' or 'most', or even 'as substantial minority'. Sexual arousal during breast feeding is a well-known phenomenon. It's perfectly normal and natural, but something that often provokes feelings of shame and guilt in those who experience it. Which is kinda understandable, given how repressed we are about anything to do with sex in this country. There was a case a few years back where a woman in this position felt so bad about it, that she called the samaritans. They were so understanding that they called the police who called the social services who took the woman's baby off her. She only got it back after a long legal battle.

 

Yup I saw your "many", and dispute it, would buy " a few", or "a minority". You only quote one poor woman who went to the Samaritans.....that for me doesn't equate with "many." I've known a lot of women who have breast fed and not one of them have found it sexually arousing, I'll agree that doesn't mean this never happens, I'm sure it does after all we are all different, but it only occurs in a few people. I don't want women to be dissappointed by the breast feeding experience, for most of us its a wonderful bonding time, but sexually exciting...not ususally.


Think about it, babies want to get milk out and get it out quick, they suck long ,hard and messily,and they don't ask you how you want your breasts touched! The first time you breast feed a baby is often uncomfortable and for me pain doesn't equate with sexual pleasure...I can see how this is not true for everyone though...

 

Wait .. that's wrong? Shit...

 

No, you've know many women who've breast fed, and none of them have admitted to finding it sexually arousing, or chosen to tell you them they find it sexually arousing.

<DIV>

 

And there's more....

 

I might walk around all day with my penis on show, (in the most non-pornographic way that a man can, of course) and if anyone finds it sexually arousing or feels the need to have me arrested then you are very very sad

 

Nudity is not porn

 

It interests me to see the flurry of denial of a known and well documented medical fact. I mean it ain't a great leap of logic.... the breasts (and particularly the nipples) are an erogenous zone. Why should it be so surprising if women were to feel sexually stimulated from any form of contact with this area? I think it'd be a different matter if there was a suggestion that this was something that should be pursued, but to aknowledge a phenomenon and try to understand it can only be healthy. Retreating into denial can only make it harder for the women who experience such feelings and are confused and ashamed.

 

something being sexually stimulating does not make it pornography. seeing a couple kissing in the park can stimulate me, but it's not porn. a picture of my husband looking powerful and strong, but fully clothed, is not pornography. that lovely picture of manolao's bare backside is lovely and droolworthy, but it's not pornography. look at all the fashion magazines with scantily clad women, young boys whacking off to victoria's secret catalogues. neither of these are porn. the fact is that just about anything can get someone off if they like it.

 

Well you've lost me there. I was under the impression that both you 'n' Starfly were disagreeing with me? And I've got no idea what on earth gives you the idea that my having an opinion equates to 'discrediting your personal experiences', but if you want to pick a fight out of nowhere, I guess that's up to you.


*shrug*

 

It's not so much fun when you're hiding in the bushes though

 

My bad. Didn't have a problem with you disagreeing with me anyway. I thought we were all having a civilised conversation until moomin got pissy.

I agree with you up to a point. The problem is, whenever we talk about experiences that are not our own, we'll inevitably be falling back on third-hand information. There's not a lot else you can do, really.

I didn't see your experiences as an argument against the point I was making, I was simply under the impression that you were disagreeing with me. I don't think I ever said anything to indicate that I didn't believe your own personal experiences to be perfectly valid? My point was simply that it was impossible to extrapolate from that a generalisation that could be applied to a whole gender. Which it appears you weren't trying to do anyway, so what's the problem?

Well yes, but I established way back that I wasn't saying this was the experience of the majority of women?

You're off your fucking tree. Y'know, I don't know why you don't just keep clear of threads where I'm posting, because you seem determined to create conflict out of nowhere. Smug?!? Where the fuck do you get that from? I'm interested in having an intelligent debate, not trading insults and trying to 'win' a conversation. What would yo usuggest I do differently in order to appear not smug? Not disagree with you? In fact, I can you actually substantiate that accusation in any way, shape or form? What, specifically, appeared smug? Considering that I didn't even fucking comment on the information that I quoted, I fail to see what could possibly have been interpreted as 'smug'. Or perhaps I was guilty of being smugly silent?

The fact is, I believe a significant number of women become aroused during breastfeeding. For those women, feelings of shame and inevitably guilt will follow. I think it's better to discuss this issue openly rather than stigmatising it. I felt that trying to argue that it doesn't happen (which was the thrust of moomin's post, I thought....) was doing those women a significant disservice. If you think it's 'smug' to try and shed some light on an area of parenting that's stigmatised and misunderstood in an attempt to promote some understanding, then you really haven't got half a fucking clue.

If you want to argue with me regarding my opinions/beliefs/attitude, then by all means do so. But there's plenty of subject matter available without you needing to project fictional attitudes onto me.

Fucking hell, have you been smoking again?!? Where did I say I even vaguely support the medical establishment? Most of the material that I've seen over the years documenting this phenomenon has been in the form of interviews with women.

You know, it's no secret that I think you're mostly full of shit and a waste of good oxygen, but I'm quite happy and willing to co-exist without the need to be at each other's throats all the time. Hell, I'll even try and get along! Fuck knows, I still try and see the good in you......

If you post something I disagree with, I'll comment on it. And I expect the same in return. However, there's no need to go looking for conflict for the sake of it, and there's no need to start throwing around insults in the middle of what had previously been a polite conversation.

 

I read these boards a lot more than I comment on them. I (obviously) read stuff that the Dok posts and will not post unless I feel particularly strongly about the topic in question.

It's easy to mis-understand the written word. Some people will skim-read and not really hear what's being said, others will interpret what they read in relation to whatever they are feeling at that particular time. But what really pisses me off is when an intellectual debate occurs and people start taken that stuff personally.

Believe me, after nearly 7 years of Knowing the Dok I think I know him well. I'm a sensitve person so I understand the overreactions and misunderstanding that can occure with someone that knows their own mind so well. I view what he says objectively, I would never support what he says just 'because he's my boyfriend'. He thinks out his debates and seeks for greater understanding. I'm sick of people taking offence at what he says when he offers strong and well-informed opinions, it's as if people want to believe that they're under attack without being arsed to read properly.

Moominmama - why on earth did you get so offended? There was absolutely nothing personal directed toward you. There was no 'I'm right and your wrong', it looks to me as if you felt strongly about the issue and that affected your interpretation of what was written.

Starfly - wtf? There was nothing 'smug' whatsoever there. Infact, I'd never associate smugness with the Dok (unless humour is involved!) Think about it, what the hell has he got to be smug about? All he's done is present evidence, he hasn't even said that you guys are wrong for fucks sake.

It just seems that as soon as any intelligent debate arises on these boards, people can't just stick to arguing their points. Communication is the biggest problem in this world and the general public's inability to argue rationally is highlighted quite nicely in this forum.

 

Which of course was posted after further comments, not in connection with the original quotes. But anyway.....

As I said, I misunderstood your post and believed you were disagreeing with me. Hardly the sort of thing I'd say if I was being smug and arrogant, eh? I'm quite interested to hear what you have to say, and wasn't aware that I'd in any way attempted to inalidate your own personal experiences. If you insist on readin between the lines of my posts and finding intentions that were never present, that's hardly my fault, is it?

Which I was never doing in the first instance.

Get your fucking facts straight and make the effort to read my posts before replying to them, otherwise you just make a fool of yourself. I never suggested you should keep clear of my posts. I suggested you should keep clear of my posts if all you can do is use them as an excuse to fuel an argument.

You're a fucking idiot. You've had arguments with me in the past, and so you're setting out to look for confrontation where there is none.

My viw is "first person based" in the same way as yours is. I've never derided your experience or called it denial. You're creating that reality for yourself. I suggested there was a denial of other women's experience, but as I've said twice now, that was based on a misunderstanding of your original post.

Ah, so you're going to fall back on the "you haven't done it so you can't possibly know anything about it" argument? That's usually one of the first resorts of the ignorant.

No, that's your subjective truth. I certainly think that there's a truth in what you say.... but then I've never argued with that. My problem is with you trying to extrapolate a generalisation for the whole female population from this.

Sensuality and sexuality are very closely related, so the connection should be obvious. And.. umm... nine times out of ten? Well one in ten is the same proportion as there are homosexuals to straights. If that isn't a significant minority, I don't know what is!

Oh go fuck yourself. You're the one that started throwing names around during an otherwise civilised conversation. Look to your own behaviour before you start whining about mine.