America: The Police State

Discussion in 'America Attacks!' started by lunarverse, Jan 25, 2011.

  1. lunarverse

    lunarverse The Living End

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    Even if people wanted to revolt or protest (even peacefully), which it doesn't seem they do, they couldn't without seriously risking their lives.

    There's video from the G20 protests in Toronto of people holding up peace signs, holding their arms above their heads to show they mean no harm, having their faces cracked open by cops' sheilds for absolutely no reason. I saw a longer video that someone shot of many cops up close. To be honest the cops, their faces and body language, looked more scared than most of the people. They (the cops) lash out in fear, like a tweeker.

    Another protest that comes to mind was one in BC Canada that comprised of about 5-7 people very peacefully protesting/advocating the return of Marc Emery and their right to use cannabis. One of the men smoking weed, who had a medical license to do so, was arrested, shoved, pushed around, etc. Then the cops put the cuffs on so tight that the guy lost circulation in his hands.

    After this about 20 cops, including a chief, showed up and stood guard while about 20 peaceful protestors stood and chanted.

    The thing I noticed about the cop who arrested the guy; the guy went to hold open a door and the cop thought the man was reaching for him (the cop) and so out of his own jittery fear he lashed out and shoved the man, then claimed that the man was reaching for him (not the door) and arrested him on that condition. He refused to say what the man was arrested for.

    Moral of the story;

    Yes cops have guns and sheilds, but they are afraid. They are afraid of people, and they are afraid of people who are not afraid of guns and police presence. It is out of this jittery, anxious fear that they often lash out, like someone who sees red and comes to after the act.

    Remember that man who was recetly shot in his home during a drug raid? The door opened and the police saw a man standing there holding something elongated. Out of fear some of them pulled their triggers and shot the man.

    They say we have the right to protest, yet when we exercise that right, we're often met with violent opposition.
     
  2. TheMadcapSyd

    TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

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    Just gonna point out from the above story before anyone says it, Canada is also not a police state.

    It could just be protests and such naturally bring out the most confrontential part of people. Like sure everyone can focus on the police, but what about all the protests for example in the US over the health care debate, some of them were literally quite violent, and heavily armed from both sides, and I'm not talking about the police being either of those sides.
     
  3. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    "I declare that I'm peaceful and will not hurt anyone unless threaten or attacked."

    I like that line, and support it, but it won't help, imo.
     
  4. lunarverse

    lunarverse The Living End

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    Cops seem to forget that it is human nature to defend oneself. When someone instinctually responds this way they get beaten or shot.
     
  5. slappyman

    slappyman Member

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    I don't know, with Harper in power, more and more "American Problems" may start visiting your beautiful country.

    And I refuse to believe that there is life outside the USA ;)
     
  6. lunarverse

    lunarverse The Living End

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    Harper's nazi Bill S-10 is proposing new prisons to be made to house all the inmates it will create. With those new prisons many Canadians are now fearing privatized prisons, to pay for the billions it would cost to create the prisons. Definitely a scary thought for most of us. Last week I saw him interviewed and he stated that, although he's not considering one now, he's thought about a drafting bill before.
     
  7. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    Cool, he's probably hoping the US will ship some prisoners from our overcrowded prisons to him so he and his friends can make big bucks off the new prison system.
    And of course they've passed even more stringent laws to capture more Canadian "criminals". Wait I mean to MAKE more Canadians appear to be criminals. How else they gonna fill all those new jails?
     
  8. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    Those who say America is NOT a police state, then please explain to me why 849,000 people were arrested for marijuana last year in the US? No one was harmed, yet nearly a million people suddenly became criminals. And if they didn't go to jail, they were sent to a "treatment center" where they had to pay $5,000 to get out of jail. No such thing in the US as a "get out of jail, free" card.

    Now if you pay the corporations you can avoid becoming forced labor in their prisons.

    That is the bottom line. Corporations rule us, not the gov't anymore.
     
  9. slappyman

    slappyman Member

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    With companies competing for cheap prison labor, it's only going to get worse.
     
  10. TheMadcapSyd

    TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

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    I love how everyone thinks not being able to smoke weed makes a place a police state despite the fact California last year and Washington this year are both having a referdenum on whether to fully legalize and tax marijuana and sell it like alcohol. Something that has never, ever been done anywhere else in the world, be it a vote on it, or full legalization(even in the Netherlands it's still technically illegal). Police state yo.

    Also 15 states have decriminalized marijuana, including the 1st and 3rd most populated. This puts them ahead of various other nations in this regard. So is only part of the US a police state then.
     
  11. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    Meanwhile, tho Medical MJ is legal in California, thousands of people are still incarcerated. And state law isn't federal law, otherwise my friend Eddy Lepp would not be in Federal prison right now, serving 10 years for growing marijuana for med patients.

    And even with the decriminalization of medical mj, and all mj in CA, they are STILL arresting nearly a million people a year for it!

    When you get busted, syd, you can tell us how this isn't a police state.

    We've had a "State of Emergency" for TWELVE FUCKING YEARS NOW. When will it end?

    I have a feeling it ain't gonna end until there's a STATE OF SIEGE.
     
  12. TheMadcapSyd

    TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

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    Yes but federal law for growing doesn't affect 99% of people, and it's still quite illegal in a good number of western nations to grow a serious amount of weed.

    "When I get busted"
    I've or someone I've been with has been found with weed by cops several times, let go each time, in a state where it's still illegal. Mad police state going on.
     
  13. slappyman

    slappyman Member

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    Cannabis aside, why does the government need to know what library books I check out, how is it people can be arrested and held without charges indefinitely, the list goes on. Look at what powers the Patriot Act gives to the government. I can see the day coming where we get stopped at state borders just like international ones.
     
  14. TheMadcapSyd

    TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

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    Face it, America isn't a police state, otherwise every western/democratic nation except maybe New Zealand and Iceland is a police state. And actual police states are apparently some kind of Orwellian project all on the same par as North Korea.

    You can throw the words patriot act out all you want and while it may have greatly increased federal investigative powers, the fact it it's still actually less than what other apparent police states(first world nations) could already do in investigating terrorism. On top of it, when it comes to most policing matters, the need for warrants, and the ability of police to search even of those charged with a crime is much stricter even compared to other common law nations such as Britain.

    I really want to know if the US is a police state, than what defines a place that isn't a police state. Are Germany and Italy police states? I mean they fully complied with the patriot act and even let us secretly ship terror subjects there. Britain?
     
  15. slappyman

    slappyman Member

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    No, strictly speaking this is not a police state, but we are sliding down that slope. But that being said, this country has become something I don't think the founding fathers could of imagined. Maybe we're a corporate state, they seem to influence most of what our elected officials do.
     
  16. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    It's a Fascist State more and more everyday. Police State is just a subcategory that describes how the fascists manage to stay in power and control the masses. You can't possibly get your head around it, until you first accept that we are living in a Fascist state. Then the police state makes sense.

    What you ppl don't understand is that there is SO MUCH LATENT POWER now in the hands of so many gov't agencies that we could turn into the WORST POLICE STATE ever seen, overnight!

    It's all a matter of degree. And the degree afforded, NOT JUST BY THE PATRIOT ACT, but by all the subsequent security legislation AND STILL SECRET ORDERS that few know about, will provide under the right circumstance, unlimited power, such as we've never seen before.

    There are those in gov't who can't wait to see how much they can get away with under these laws. Cheney used/abused them a whole lot. And if they don't get what they want, you can expect Martial law to come into effect.

    BTW, in a police state, the gov't controls the media. You got to see this in the run up to the Iraq War, when every major media outlet echoed the same talking points, and NOT ONE questioned the gov'ts claims of WMD or Al-Qaeda being in Iraq or any of the other lies they spread.

    That's a police state, and guess what? Most western countries would NOT have had the media in lock step, because they are NOT police states.

    In fact, if you had lived abroad, as I did during the run-up to the war, you would know that Europeans were extremely skeptical of the US claims. And while ONE MILLION PEOPLE took to the streets in LONDON, BARCELONA, ROME (that's one million in each country on the same day) to protest, the USA could not even field 100,000 to protest the war PRECISELY BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A POLICE STATE, where the gov't controls the mass media and you are penalized for protesting.

    Here you get arrested, you are detained sometimes without food or water for 48 hours or longer. You are interrogated, photographed, fingerprinted, scanned, etc. treated LIKE A CRIMINAL for just performing your patriotic right to protest your government.

    They allow peaceful protests in other countries, but not in the USA anymore. They're too fucking paranoid.
     
  17. DoobieDuck

    DoobieDuck Member

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    Hey I like what you had to say Slappy..Skip..it's big, this issue, isn't it? I think what you, and this site, does is the most important part in changing this..informing the people of the facts and what's going on. Thanks..DD
     
  18. lunarverse

    lunarverse The Living End

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    15 minutes ago CNN was going on about all the shit they found on Jared Loughtner's (spelling?) computer. They found that he had looked up lethal injection, solitary confinement, he had looked up other people who have gone on rampages/killings.

    Lawyers want to use that against him in case he tries to plead insanity. The fact that he looked that shit up shows, according to CNN, that he had intent and that he, "knew the difference between right and wrong."

    What you search can and will be used against you. Imagine if you were arrested for whatever reason and the news started talking about what was found on your computer.
     
  19. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    I guess you and your pot were such a HUGE security risk to the state, right?
     
  20. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    See, it's stories like these that give impetus to the Police State to pass even MORE LAWS invading your privacy.

    Someone's going to say, "well if we could've looked at Jared's computer before he went on a killing spree we would've caught him and locked him up in time."

    So they'll demand the right to see everyone's computer history before any crime has been committed. Precrime division, right?

    Fact is, if he'd been reported to any of a number of agencies, they may have done just that, invaded his computer and recorded and monitored his activities online and offline. They could've monitored all his purchases including buying guns and ammo at Walmart. Then a special algorithm would raise a flag having associated his online interest in mass murder with his recent purchase of firearms and ammo, and perhaps a recent report (as actually happened!) that he was stopped by a LEO just before the shooting spree (when he could've been apprehended!).

    So it would only take two or more flags to get a bunch of eyes now looking your way, watching your every move.

    And since they CAN do that now, they are doing that now.

    I will say this: if they can devise a nearly perfect algorithm to find precisely what they are looking for without false positives, then I might support that kind of law enforcement. However, what we have instead is tens of thousands of people who are on watch lists for no good reason, just by coincidence of a name sometimes.

    And it's nearly impossible to get off any of these lists no matter how innocent you may be.

    And EVERYONE gets hassled at airports now. Who needs a perfect algorithm when you can make billions from hiring thousands of people to feel your crotch? Just make EVERYONE a false positive and make TONS OF MONEY doing it! That's the fascist way to profit!
     

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