An open letter to young hippies

Okay... yes, it was a cool story, the type I like actually, but I stand by what I said. The story is based on the idea that everyone is going to stand up and be a person...

Look around... it doesn't happen... or at least not on a scale large enough to matter. Any situation in which that process could be sped up (here on earth) would fail, because those with the power won't give it up....

For now, as the slaves (most of the human race) seem moderately happy to go along with the idea they are free, while still slaving away for others profits, they (the few) are more then happy to allow them that illusion and the odd luxury here and there...

If it ever got to a point where people were choosing in mass to stop being slaves, the situation would change... no longer would the few be content to leave the illiusion in effect seems it wasnt paying any dividends... Then, the true meaning of a slave state would be obvious to all...

Don't get me wrong... I would love to be on a world just like the one in the story... in fact, I like the idea so much I think I'm going to steal it and warp it into something I can use... But it wont work... or at least not with humans...

Sadly, the proof I am right about this, is all around us.

 

I admit. I agree with Chronic Tom. There is no freedom. If we lived our lives using the freedom of self that OWB addressed, then their would be consequences depending on the action. Some actions based on our desires will work well with the system, while others will not. It all depends on what the system will allow. If the system brings about a consequence while engaging our freedom of self, then how can we call it free? Sure you can do it, but not without trouble.

Say you engage in your personal freedom to grow cannabis and sell it to friends, if you are found out then those that have more power than you will bring you trouble. The best that we can hope for is that the next generations will figure it out. Perhaps through experience and reason, people in the future will find out what is ridiculous and what is not.

All societies go through maturation and de-maturation processes; creation, destruction and rebirth. There will never be a utopia. I hope I am wrong, though.

 

First I'm not really here to argue with you about it. It's pretty much the way I live my life, if it doesn't work for you then, peace upon you.

Glad you liked the story, if you'll notice I use it in my signature.

In the story is an example of what happens to someone who "does not go along with it".

I also agree that many find this system to be a Pillar of their lives and would be lost without it but please realize everything that artificial is fragile and is doomed to come apart at the seems. For those watching, that was pointed out by the "Great Recession" and near collapse of the world wide monetary system recently. Only the quick propping it up with "funny" money gave it a reprieve but only for so long.

Someone will need to be ready to help those who have "lost everything" and to me "Hippies" who have already gotten rid of this system could be very helpful at a time like that.

As for it happening on a scale large enough to matter, check out Gandhi, MLKing and Mandela.

Happily I feel the proof is also all around us.

 

Sorry man, I totally disagree... those who have got rid of the system, only claim they have... they use the system each and every day while claiming to not need it... That system is what allows you to be able to log on and type that you think you have freed yourself from that system.

Look at us here, out in the middle of the bush, living our own life, growing our own food, producing our own power and so forth... but NOT making a claim we have nothing to do with the system, and recognizing that we are only here because we waded through that system to get here and that if we ever stop wading through the system, we will surely drown...

Denying it doesn't make it so...

Oh and as for it working on a large scale... Yeah, good idea lets look at Ghandi... Let's look at where his efforts got us shall we?

In the story, that way of life lasted 400 years... How long has India been free? How are they doing with that? Do you think those in your story would feel kinship with those that are in india today?

 

Everything we do has consequences. If you walk in the rain, you could catch a cold but I like to walk in the rain so I do so and if I catch a cold so be it.

So if the powers that be tell you to kill someone, do you kill them? If they threaten to kill you if you don't, do you kill that person?

Not that I have any compunction against killing someone, it's that I think I should decide if it is necessary or not and not some powers that be and not just to avoid some consequence for me.

 

Just to help you answer that India question, I offer you a link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiWlvBro9eI"]YouTube - Bhopal Disaster - BBC - The Yes Men

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lScyQYUHLA"]YouTube - The Yes Men - Bhopal results

Peace Out,
Rev J

 

owb, don't get me wrong on this... I agree with you 100% that the world would be a much better place if we all acted like they did in that story.

I just never see it happening. We are where we are today, precisely because the majority of people are not, and never will be, the independent, free thinking people portrayed in that fictional work, or at least not on this world... Perhaps one day, a scenario just as is laid out, but until then, we are here, on this one planet, with no way to escape the fact the majority of people in the world suck balls... (not in a good way)...

People will always be talking about how they would do this or that differently, if they just had the chance, but when that chance comes along, they change their tune to, I can't take that chance and lose what I have... Even when they currently have nothing...

People are not smart... offer 100 people (in the western world) who are dying of thirst a glass of water, and 90 of them are going to tell you they want coffee, or tea, or juice, or anything else other then what you offer them...

Offer someone a home away from the majority of the bs of 'normal life' and what do you get in return? Oh, you have to make me a part owner and we have to do things my way...

Offer someone a hand up and they look to see what you are going to hit them with...

The majority of people fucking suck... and THAT is why we are where we are, and why we will never be in the position of the people in that story...

The only hope for a 'more' sane life is for the isolated groups of people who may survive IF the shit hits the fan in some way and societies collapse... The problem with waiting for that, or even working for that, is that there are people who have a really serious vested interest in making sure that collapse doesn't come, and they do have the power to wipe everyone out in the process of trying to save themselves...

 

Oh no, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say that we should follow along everyone else and do so as to safegaurd ourselves from trouble. I mostly meant that we cannot call this freedom because freedom implies the absence of negative consequence (at least I think so... :blush5. Sure, you could refuse to kill someone and get in all kinds of trouble by the powers that be, and that could be the right thing to do, and should be done if it were the right thing to do despite consequence, imo. But the right thing to in a situation like this still has consequences, and if it has negative consequences, then how can we call it freedom? Sure we are free to decide, but we are not free from trouble.

In other words, there are no degrees of freedom, only freedom: either all or nothing: not only from the inside, but the outside as well.

You have freedom to choose, as in free will, but not freedom as freedom you'd expect in an utopia where any action decided on by anyone can be decided
on without any problems ensuing, either for yourself or for others.

But that's the thing, despite free will, and the tough choices we may have to make in our lives, there will always be someone who has a different vision on how life should be carried out, and this difference can interfere with our own vision.

This is why we have such things as government regulation, as an example, the FDA. If it wasn't for the FDA, people would still be eating tomato sauce made with a mixture of tomato paste and red paint. A situation like this would be different than the difficult choices we can make, like the example you gave, because it has to do with misdirection - There are so many forces at work and so many people with desires contary to a good life that we need certain safeguards from those desires. In other word, we have to make do with what we have and in the end we have to make many tough decisions that can lead to problems, problems that shouldn't exist, and wouldn't exist, if it weren't for the desires of certain groups of people.

 

Ahh and here's the fly in the ointment. In physics they say for every action there is a reaction. In India they call it karma. Everything we do causes a very long chain reaction. Simple decisions like where to eat lunch can alter the course of your whole day.

Say you have to decide between eating at 2 resteraunts one is one block from where you live and the other is 3. You decide on the one 3 blocks away because they have something you really want there. So you go and once you get to the second intersection someone runs a red light and broadsides another car. Then you have to stand there as a witness. Wait for the cops give a statement etc. Then since the intersection is blocked you have to walk around the block to get to the same resteraunt that you wanted to have lunch at. All of those little incidents add up and your whole afternoon is off by about 30 minutes.

My point is that a lot of life and true freedom breaks down to realizing and owning up to the consequences of our actions. For as Liberal as I like to be I don't necessarily like the fact that our society has devolved to the point where we have to legislate common decency. There is a law they are trying to pass in numerous states that you can't protest along a funeral route since Pastor Fred Phelps has decided it appropriate to line veterans funeral routes with picketers holding signs saying "God Hates Fags". On one hand I disapprove of what they are doing on the other hand under our "Illusion of Freedom" they have freedom of speech and religion that allows them to do it.

Slavery also never went away. The racial aspect just got taken out of it. Think of how much money you make and how much you actually get to keep and how much you really have to show for it. Instead of whips now we have Credit to keep us working and keep our pace up. "See your Credit Score Now" and "You can be denied some jobs if you have a low credit score" seem to be the mantras of todays consumerist society. But then again I really have to blame the yuppies for this too.

Peace Out,
Rev J

 

While I hear what y'all say I find that blaming and not acting your own truth are as much part of the problem as any other part.
It becomes more and more evident for those who seek Awareness that we control only our own reactions, which leads to some semblance of control over our actions, which leads to a ripple in the flow of interconnectedness that makes up the Whole of humanity and beyond. And perhaps this is the only true way we can really affect and even effect our reality.....course then there are those whose reality is totally tainted by what they wish to believe even as opposed to what might "Be"
Live your truth with impeccability ... which means for god's sake be true to your Self....without that the horn sounds but the deeds do not live up to the great noise and it becomes an offense in the ears of those that will "Hear" and a blight in the eyes of those that "See".

god that old fart is blithering away again.

You Know - when you make yourSelf the Change - the Whole of reality shifts.... really !

 

This seems a bit over the top. Not saying it's not keeping people tied but it's really something else than slavery and credits are not today's equivalent of a whip.

 

I read a statistic that stated 64% of Americans were dissatisfied with their jobs. The unemployment and underemployment rates are through the roof, necessities like food and medical insurance are through the fucking roof and should you get injured you are fucked. All of the money you make goes out the door before you even have your check cashed.

Forcing yourself to go to a job you hate for money that is going to somebody else sounds to me like slavery. Believe you me that if they could still get away with whipping people and the 14 hour work day they would. Instead they use made up numbers like credit scores and the fact that the average American is about 2 paychecks away from being homeless to keep us hostage. Instead of being whipped and getting hobbled to prevent us from running away they threaten us with fraud charges when they ask for more money than they give us and we can't pay it back. Then they offer us high interest loans that we have no means to pay off as a way to keep us afraid of the slave master. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.

Peace Out,
Rev J

 

Please feel free to do so.

I never said that I got rid of the system or that I don't use it. Quite obviously it is still there but it will fall apart on its own with or without my help.

What I have said is that once a person realizes the true nature of what is going on he can free himself from that. He no longer does things just because this system of things says he must but makes his decisions based on his own conscience and not on the "conscience" of the majority.

Tell me, how is it we will drown? This system, just a few short months ago, was on the verge of total world wide economic collapse and still is, what if that happens? Do we all "drown"?

Correct denying it does not make it so, the fact that there are literally thousands of "hippies" that live lives that have little or nothing to do with this system of things does.

Myself, I take advantage of this system while it's here but when it disappears, I will not miss its passing.

I was talking about that fact that Ghandi freed India from the tyranny of Great Brittan, which in of itself is pretty large scale, not that he set up a government that follows his principles but perhaps he would have if he had not been assassinated.

The people in the story feel kinship with the principles of Gandhi, not with a Government that does not follow those principles.

 

I still don't see what the story has to do with real people... You are using fictional people, in a fictional story to judge what is possible in the real world. You get a world made up of a bunch of fictional people like those in the story and the rest could follow...

Until then you are dealing with real humans which the majoirty of =do not stand up for what they believe in, even when EVERYTHING says its in their best interest to do so.

The whole thing about ghandi... the fact that he was assassinated, is the proof that what I am saying is right, or at least in my opinion. It reflects reality... That is what would have happened on that world if the writer hadn't decided that the troops would just give everythng up and leave.

In reality, they would have started killing and torturing people to find out where the capital and head of the government was... just like the explorers did when they got to south america and the incas wouldn't give them all their gold...

At some point in time, people would have come to the conclusion that if the spacemen just killed 1000 people in front of them, that they could very well be next... and MYOB would have turned into "May I suck your cock please sir"...

 

Sorry, you seem to be missing the whole point. You seem to think that the "real world" is somehow an excuse for not taking responsibility for your own freedom.

You seem to think that if threatened with death everyone will give up their principles and do what ever they are told to do.

Sorry but history is filled with examples of people who were willing to hold on to their principles in spite of what they were threatened with. They weren't waiting for the whole "real world" to agree with them before they stood up and said no and they were will willing to say no regardless of the consequences.

Yes Gandhi was assassinated, so was MLKing and Jesus but all three made profound changes in the "real world". All three left fine examples that show that one person can change the world for the better, if they have the courage and that is not fiction.

 

Actually, at no point in time did I say pretty much any of what you just translated my words into...
Personal responsibility is what its all about...

Saying look, in this work of fiction, this worked, is not a proof of ANYTHING beyond that the writer could write those words... My own freedom IS my own responsibility, which is why I live my life as I choose to...

The second part where you say that I seem to think everyone will just roll over and take it... Once again, not what I said... I said they would kill people until others started rolling over... If you think that it matters the slightest to those in charge if that means they have to kill 1 person or 99% of all people, you are sadly mistaken. They will kill as many people as it takes... as each one stands up, they will be put down... Just as those in your example were put down... Which btw once again supports my argument...

As for your 'history shows' I don't give a fuck if you can name 100,000 people who have done such in the past, there are 6.5 BILLION people out there to show that you are wrong... The odd INDIVIDUAL stands up and refuses to take shit anymore... On occasion, they even manage to convince others to join them... and then they are killed... one by one...

You want to keep trying to use history to prove your point, unfortunately, our history is what got us right where we are now, which is where you say we wouldn't be... See the problem?

 

Great, then what are you saying?

Yes, that is what I've been saying.

I never said that it was. You are the one making a big deal about, all I ever said was it is a interesting read.

Great, as long as this system doesn't decide otherwise, I suppose.

Kind of the same thing don't you think?

It doesn't really matter to me what those who think they are charge think matters or not. The Nazi thought that would work and yet in the end it failed them.

Actually no it doesn't support your argument at all, many have nonviolently stood up to tyranny and have not been "put down" and yet those tyrannies have fallen.

So give up and join the 6.5 billion that are "right". As for me I'll stand with the courageous "wrong" ones that have not given up.

I see the problem and have learned from it, too bad you are doomed to repeat it.

 

Wow... I don't know where I ever got the idea you had some good ideas...