Anarchy will never work because

That's why I say its more of a means than an end... anarchy is like a tool or a path, or a lack of control.

 

well... it isn't a tool, as a tool has a purpose... which anarchy does not...

It isn't a path, because following a path is following a plan...

It is however a lack of control.

The most interesting part of these types of discussions is when someone asks the simple question of....

Do you feel its okay for someone to kill your child?

See, I know I am not for anarchy or self government... Because my answer to the previous question is NO...

I don't want to live in a society where I have to depend on others practicing self-control, as we humans have shown repeatedly how well that turns out.

I want to live in a society where I know that if someone tries to harm a loved one, that those around will step up and say... "Hey, you can't do that", rather then "It's none of my business".

 

punks are dead?

 

That is such a lame argument.

Who says that will not happen in an anarchistic society?

I'd say it is probably more likely to happen. Rather than relying on "the police" societies will become smaller and self-policing, and the consequences of your actions will then likely be more severe because you wont then have any "civil rights" to protect you so it might be more of a deterrent.

"You can make an omelette without breaking a few eggs"

Bad shit will always happen, but if we get all fucking paranoid about it and start introducing controls and more controls to the point where it start inhibiting the natural evolution of society then far graver things will start to happen, things like 9/11 for instance.

It's not rocket science.

 

Who says it won't happen? History says it won't happen.

Humans have had many many opportunities to show our true colors.

I like how you just avoided the question....

Let me repeat it and see if you care to try to actually answer it, or if you just wish to attack it again.

Is it okay for someone else to kill your child?

If not, tell me how it is that you expect to protect them without initiating any type of control over others.

Kids get harmed and killed all the time with there being laws to control others in place... what is it that makes you think that all people will just decide to be 'good' if you remove those laws?

 

nope.. they just forgot the difference between anarchy and apathy :sunny:

 

It was a hypothetical question. They don't require answers.

OK then, let me answer your question. Ok here goes, are you ready for my answer.....

Here it is!!!----

NO!

There you go, Happy now? I don't even have any children either.

You can't protect society from everything bad that might happen.

The point that I was trying to make though which you seem to have avoided understanding is that if we allow people the chance to behave themselves then by and large then will.

First up, not all people will decide to be "good citizens" if you take away those laws. Secondly, we are now in a situation whereby suddenly reintroducing an anarchic society will result in the types of social chaos that the media likes to incorrectly portray anarchy as, because people have not had the freedoms to learn the collective self discipline that is required for a harmonious society to exist.

Think of society as a lion in a cage, it's been in there for months, has been underfed and abused and it is going mental. What do you think will happen if the cage is suddenly opened?

The reason there is so much bad in the world is an indirect consequence of the gradual deterioration of our fundamental human rights, slowly but surely put in the place to supposedly act as a deterrent against miscreant behaviour. And guess what, it hasn't worked. It has only made things worse, just the like the war on drugs made things worse.

p.s. if you come back at me again with that old cliche that I have "avoided the question" then I am just going to ignore you.

 

To start with... Ignore me... like I care... Did you really think saying something like that would help out here?

As for the rest of it... I wish there was some way for people who argue for anarchy to experience it without the rest of us being dragged along.

You go tell people like hitler, manson, fritzi, genghis and so on and so forth, that you want them to behave and work with others...

I'm actually shocked people didnt pick up on this years ago... all we had to do was ask people to be nice and all the world's problems will go away....


Edited to add;

Oh yeah, and I forgot to ask... just how do you expect to protect your child from someone who wants to harm them without violating that person's right to do as they choose?

 

I wish there was too, because I'm fed up with being dragged down all the time by the current so called democratic system.

Do you want me to keep answering the same question over and over again?

Oh my god, we must have a government or else it'll be "paedogeddon"!

Any argument you have presented here is defeated by the salient point I brought up previously that it is already anarchy, it always has been and always will be.

You just don't understand what anarchy is, as don't most of the population of the world.

Go and carry on voting, see if it eventually makes the slightest bit of a difference.

Ok so the situation that we have basically ended up in that we are all now ruled by the people who successively wielded the greatest oppressive power over the land.

Are you happy about that?

Who gave these people their power in the first place I ask you. I'll tell you. Stupid people who donot understand how a peaceful anarchic society operates.

So the problem we have here is not that, you say, anarchy is a fundamentally flawed idea to begin with, the problem is that people are too fucking stupid to stand up for themselves. They are too scared to stand on their own feet. They donot know how to.

There was once a time when we did. Now "we" are brainwashed into believing that there is no other way.

 

All of it comes down to this... and if you can see that part of it, I have a really hard time understanding how you don't see the other part of that...

You are 100% right.. it is because people are too fucking stupid to stand up for themselves...

What is it that you expect to change?

This is why I say, and will keep saying, that anarchy will not work...

Because self-government, requires self-aware people... If everyone was self-aware, and there were NO stupid people... then yes, it could work...

Do you ever see a point in which everyone (or even a majority of people) is self aware and capable of self-government?

I don't... and I base that on the history of mankind... of where we are now, precisely because a large majority of people DON'T EVER stand up.

 

Well in that case then NO system will work!

So does that mean that the remaining n% of the population who aren't stupid or violent should have to suffer a counter productive and idiotic system? Does that mean the rest of the life of the planet should have to suffer because most people in the world happen to be thick as shit?

One of the most salient arguments for the legalisation of all drugs.

NO, everyone always disagrees on most things, which is all the more reason to scrap the current bullshit electoral system, and replace it with anarchy.

The rules are simple in an anarchistic society. Don't like the way things are run, go and live somewhere else.

 

Yes, a thousand times over YES... It absolutely DOES mean that... Unless you plan on killing off the stupid portion of the population. This is where I keep clashing with people over this subject... It doesn't matter if 99% of people are self-governing... If there is ONE PERSON who thinks that they should be in charge and ONE person who listens to them, the whole idea goes to shit...

An idea that was expressed elsewhere that if everyone just refused to co-operate, even to the point of death, doesn't hold any water either... Those who think they should be in charge, would rather be in charge of one living person, then not be in charge of one billion people... In otherwords, they would have no qualms about killing off 99% of the people if they wouldn't listen to them... They don't need those who won't listen anyway...

And if everyone else is working on the theory of, if I don't like it here, I'll move, WHO is ever going to stop that one person with their growing numbers?

End result... the experiment into anarchy turns back into what we have right now... Which yes, does suck and is horrible, but it IS THE RESULT of people's choices...

 

you have to admit, that every so often the urge to do just that becomes overwhelming . . .

:devil:

 

Actually I thought maybe we could try educating them. But we could also just kill the ones that are REALLY dumb.

Think you might need more than 2 people.

This is such a ball of crap, it really is.

Eh? You're not making any sense.

When I say anarchy I don't mean each man for himself, I mean that society is given the freedom to evolve, people have the choice to live their lives how they want, and that way everyone will find a place to fit in somewhere. And if no-one does, they can live on their own too.

It's not a perfect system, but then life isn't perfect.

Life forms need to be able to breath in order to survive, just the same as social networks.

 

Whatever man... You choose to see the world from a perspective of what it could be IF people would change...

I choose to see the world as it is.

 

And when the oil runs out, what then?

 

Funny you should ask that... When the oil runs out, I will continue my life on as before minus the communication with the world at large... through no fault of my own...

I will still have food, water, shelter, heat, weed and electricity... AND rules...

What will you have?

 

How the fuck should I know? I don't know when it is going to run out.

Who is making the rules in your hypothetical apocalyptic world?

 

The same person who made sure what you call hypothetical is something that actually exists, if you meant about where I said I will be.

If you meant about the apocalyptic world... I don't quite understand why you would call it my hypothesis seems you are the one who brought it up.

 

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Enjoy your smoke and consider yourself lucky that you don't live on a cold shitty little island where weed can be very hard to come by.