Anonymous and LulzSecurity Declare WAR on Governments, Banks and other Big Businesses

Discussion in 'Latest Hip News Stories' started by skip, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. walsh

    walsh Senior Member

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    That's good, but it's not like countless other more influential people haven't done that in the past. Being pissed off at the government, which is made up of people just like you and me, is a waste of energy. Government is just a mirror of what you and I are like internally, so changing it will not work. We have to change the very structure of our minds and way of thinking.
     
  2. Meliai

    Meliai Members

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    The government is like you are internally? So on the inside you're a murdering, thieving, dominant, greedy force intent on helping only those that line your pocket?

    I try to be the best person I can be because I do think it starts with the individual, but that doesn't mean that the individual doesn't have a right to be angry over injustices committed by a larger entitity.
     
  3. Rusty Spoon

    Rusty Spoon Member

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    Human nature is sick. I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that the government is a mirror of who we are internally. No matter how good and wholesome you make yourself to be, there is a beast under your skin. Something will eventually bore into you, and tear it free. Whether it is money, power, legions, retribution, indignation, we all have an inner asshole.

    Now for more pessimism. This society, or rather a scourge, has become FUBAR. There is no turning back, nor a light at the end of the tunnel. If power of morals and soul had any strength, change could happen. Consider the gravity of the situation.
    There is zero chance of revolution. *Compare the number of people who would participate to the massive army that we support. *Compare our weaponry to the weaponry of our military. *There is zero chance of epiphany for the higher powers, a change if cold heart. *Harmony will never overcome hubris. *There is zero chance that we will ever bring down the titans that we wrought with our own hands. *There is zero chance of filthing the brainwashed masses with logic and truth. *The only way there will be an end to our corruption, is an end to our race. **

    Go ahead and say I'm wrong. *Tell me that I'm too young to know anything. *Tell me that we can do anything we want to. *Tell me that we're going to turn over a new leaf.

    ...tell me when you've given up ideals.***
     
  4. Voice of Truth

    Voice of Truth Member

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    Both of you have every right in the world to be angry. You're frustration with the way things are is valid. But I will disagree with you that "this is about human nature."

    There is an old saying that goes, "The pathway to hell is paved with good intentions." To that effect any and all governments are a "co-opted system." What had started out as a methodology to allow people to regulate their problems in so they can co-exist in peace has long since failed.

    In the long term, all large scale governments are doomed to failure because the humans that created them or manage them are imperfect. Many many good people get involved in politics hoping to make a difference. But they are given a choice of abandoning their goals or comprimse them. And when you comprimise your values, the corruption beings.



    My youngest grandchild once said something very profound to me.

    "If you're falling off a cliff. You might as well flap your arms
    and try to fly. Because you've got nothing left to loose."


    We, my young friend, are falling off that proverbial cliff. The only choice now given to all of us is, "Are you going to just quietly accept your fate? " Or, "Are you going to try and fly?"

    Who knows, you might beat the odds and soar like an eagle. But even if you fly like a pigion with a broken wing, you will have still accomplished something considered impossible.

    In the 60s there were words in a song that said, "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose." What that was saying is when the conversation turns to discussing our freedoms.. What we are really debating is if we still have anything else left to loose.

    I'm an old man and I don't move so fast these days. But if you can tune in and turn on to what I'm saying to you and join this revolution. I'll watch your back. Trust me, the origional hippies might be old, but we aren't dead yet.

    You just got to brainstorm the problem of finding ways to get people to tune in and turn on. Get people willing to talk about "love" and they're tuning in the revolution radio station without even knowning it.
     
  5. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    All of you who look with fear upon our military and police forget one thing...

    They are people, just like you and me, and although they might have good paying jobs (unlike many of us), they are still subject to the same thoughts we have (more or less), even if they are stuck at Kolhberg level 2 ...

    And when push comes to shove, there's no telling who they might aim their weapons at. If the media still controls the minds of the masses at the point of revolution, they may fall on the side of the rich and powerful.

    As you may have noticed during the Arab Spring, the turning point is ALWAYS in the hands of the police or military. Once they are convinced they need to side with the PEOPLE, the revolution can succeed. This can happen, but only if everyone turns out for the party. The police and military must see among the protesters their own families. That is when they will either put down their weapons or side with the "rebels".

    Likewise in Gov't and industry there are people who given enough reason, will perform acts of espionage or sabotage. Look at Bradley Manning. Why do you think he is being held so incommunicado? The gov't fears more people like him will emerge. They're punishing him as a deterrent.

    The gov't would have to declare martial law and get medieval on everyone before things get out of hand. Then we would truly become that which we fear, and the America we know would be no more. And guess what? I bet Americans would get used to it, just like everything else. We could have YEARS of martial law and nobody would raise a peep. How could they with machine guns on every corner along with the spy cameras... I don't want to see that day come, but an unsuccessful revolution would bring it about. Look at Syria today. That's what it could be like when you have police and military armed to the gills.

    The only difference is most Americans are also armed. So when it comes to one-on-one, it's a toss up. I bet the first thing they'll try to do is round up the weapons in the hands of the citizens. At that point, I'll be against gun control (I'm not now).

    When the shit hits the fan, if it's gonna get violent, I'm outta here. I didn't expect to return to the US anyway, it was only cause I saw a chance for CHANGE that I came back to participate in the election. But we got fooled again, didn't we...

    BTW, I once read a deep analysis of the collapse of the world order along with global warming, and the conclusion was that the best place to be in, should it happen is the USA, due to our resources, the size of the country (different climatic zones) and ability to be self-sufficient (haha!).
     
  6. Thanks Skip for pointing me in the direction of Anonymous. I like what they are doing and saying. I've a fair bit more investigating to do but right now they're saying what I think about fighting big business and government in a non-violent way.
     
  7. Voice of Truth

    Voice of Truth Member

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    Skip,
    I'm guessing that you and I are from the same generation. I knew a cat that thought and talked just like you. Man oh man, I miss the guy. He was a real cool cat. I think of him each time I read your messages.


    You see,
    Bradley Manning, Julien Assange and Anonymous are all guys that have "Turned On." It's the reason behind their actions. They're laying it on the line for us.

    And ask yourself why they're sticking their necks out for us?

    Because love has touched them.

    They want to make a difference in this world. And the reason for wanting to make a difference is because they either are thinking about their family, friends or just what they might leave behind for future generations.

    A man's pride or arrogance will never push things as far as they guys are going. Manning my be executed, Assange assasinated and members of Anonymous might be sent to a prison like Guantanimo. Even greed can only make a man run so far. Afterall there is no sense in risking your neck for the money if you're not going to get to enjoy it.


    Skip,
    All we need to do is just start turning on the young here. That way there will be more people like Bradley Manning and Julien Assange and other activist groups. To the general public, guys like you and me might never be heros. But that doesn't mean we can't be the soft voice whispering in the ear that inspires someone to become one.


     
  8. mustlivelife

    mustlivelife Knows nothing!

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    Ghandi was assassinated.
     
  9. Voice of Truth

    Voice of Truth Member

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    Yes Ghandi was assasinated. But the British establishment also subjugated and killed hundreds of Indians before his arrival in India.

    The establishment bombs, tortures, imprisons, etc hundreds if not thousands each and every single day. It's just a question of chance and circomstance. If there is one thing that the 9/11 taught us, is that entire world can turn on a dime in the matter of seconds.

    There is no guarantee that our nation isn't going to take an even bigger turn for the worse and ask yourself this. Does the possible risk to yourself merrit taking a chance today to spread the message of love and perhaps make the future brighter for future generations? Or would you rather just wait and see what happens?

    No one is asking you to be Ghandi or Assange. All anyone is saying is to spread the message of love. Turn on the right person with good vibes and love energy and they feel the need, they can become the Ghandi of the United States
     
  10. Carlfloydfan

    Carlfloydfan Travel lover

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    I read the text. Now why not go after China???????

    (Know they must be saving the good ol' states for latter..)
     
  11. Rusty Spoon

    Rusty Spoon Member

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    Thanks for the encouraging words Truth. Maybe this world will never change, but a weary mind won't help that situation at all. If we can't change ourselves, then neither will the others. Maybe it is hopeless, but drifting idly by without even trying is even more so.

    What sucks is, I think halfway through when I typed that, I had already forgotten this article was about a revolution of the Internet guided by hackers.
     
  12. mustlivelife

    mustlivelife Knows nothing!

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    They tried love in the 60's. Love does not make anyone bulletproof. It is not possible to win this one with just love, many many people do not understand love or it's language, they have been conditioned a different way to you. Love can be a driving force but it is really no more than that. Love is something you learn, something conditioned upon you. I sometimes think that some people are so blindly conditioned with this love message as to make them almost useless to a cause like this.

    There is no room for morals, ethics and love anymore. Look around you. Look at the life you've had to lead in order to survive: Even if you were helping people somewhere along the way, you were still doing it as part of an entity (the system) that is corrupt at a fundamental level. Nearly all your actions in this system have resulted in more damage to the environment and someone else missing out or doing the hard work with little or no reward (the rules of capitalism).

    In a way, we younger ones have an advantage over you older ones. You see, we were raised on ultra-violent videogames and films, our minds have been warped far beyond the evil that even the purest of people could imagine. We have no conditioning for real love, only superficial attachment based on appearance and how much the object of our affections can benefit us. "They" filled our minds with killstreaks, bonus points, wanted ratings and violent solutions. "They" trained us in tactical combat, silent assaults, avenging the deaths of innocents and love only makes an appearance in the happy ending. We are generation X, generation sex and generation who shall we blame next? "They" will reap what they sow.

    But carry on loving, of course we need medics as well as soldiers. We need those that can teach us to love after the mess has been cleaned up. But don't you dare become another pollution in young people's minds that adds to their inactivity. I agree we should love one and other eternally but we must use our hate on the system that created the hate, for the hate to die means no revolution. A crowd of loving protestors would influence you or I but not "them".

    I hope you see what I am saying, I am not disagreeing with the love concept but you must allow people to harness their anger and hate, "they" speak the language of anger and hate and they will understand and fear a crowd of angry, hateful protestors. Watch the recent police brutality in Spain, the crowd is so peaceful and obviously acting on love which makes them great targets for the police batons. Then look at the student protests in London, you can see scenes of the crowd throwing metal fences and things at the police, you can see the fear in their stance and they no longer push the crowd or raise their batons, they know what will happen if they do.

    I'm all for peace and love but 5 weeks ago I was shown how useful it really is. See, I was trading in medicinal herbs and was a very ethical businessman. I never ripped anyone off, always gave a little more. I genuinely cared for the people I met through my work and I was the best because of it. I was functioning on my love for people, for the world as a whole and still trying to make a change as I was doing it. But love does not stop a gang of chavs kicking your door through in the middle of the night, hitting you with a bat and taking your shit. They didn't care how great and ethical I was, they didn't care how much I loved anyone or anything, all they cared about is what they could gain from me. And that's all "they" care about, too. You have to be immersed in a generation to really understand them, you have to be a part of that generation. It's too late for love to be a weapon. A driving force, yes. A tool, no.
     
  13. andallthatstocome

    andallthatstocome not a squid

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    wow. How do you fight a hydra in a world with no prometheus?
     
  14. mustlivelife

    mustlivelife Knows nothing!

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    Prometheus stole fire, didn't he? Hercules killed the hydra on one of his trials. And then went off to shovel horse shit.
     
  15. Voice of Truth

    Voice of Truth Member

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    You wrote a lot and I decided to cut out a fair amount just for the sake of making it easier to read. But be assured that I read everything over twice before responding. You took the time to write it and it's only a question of respect that it be fully understood before responding.

    You're angy and rightly so. I'm sorry for what happend to you. But I hate to say this, the "approach" that you're alluding to has be tried over and over again and it always fails.

    Here is the problem,

    If we wage a "standard" revolution like that of which has been done many many times before. Within 1 generation, the corruption and pandering will return and within 2-3 generations we'll be right back where we started.

    Think about! Within 20 years this entire mess begins to return and soon after that it'll be business as usual. Some greedy and unhappy people using propoganda and lies to make others kill and die for them. It'll be another sick system of where a handful of elite few profit from the suffering of others.

    This means in the future there will be another group of "chavs" to kick down your door in the middle of the night, hit you what a bat and take your stuff. This garbage has been going on for hundreds of years.

    And at some point this shit has got to stop.

    Survival instincts judgement. But at some point the first step has got to be taken. So therefore let me say, "yes you might be shot and killed for taking a stand." But you're going to die anyway. It's just a question of when, where and how.

    9 years ago I wrote up a will for a 26 year old man and less than a year later he was dead. He had wife and 2 children, his health was incrediable and he had a washboard stomach. He used to jog everyday on a dirt road near his home. But one day he triped and fell on a tree stump and a branch got him right in the chest.

    Death happens.

    And it doesn't tell you when it's going to happen. What's more, you get once chance and after that who knows what happens. So it's better to live your life in such a way as you can be proud of yourself.

    Perhaps then if there is an afterlife or karma or something. Then maybe whatever it is that governs this universe might just look down upon you at the moment of your death and cut you a little bit of slack.

    I know what I'm talking about here. I'm a senior citizen and I've buried 2 brothers and a wife. And at my age, when I look in the mirror I swear I can see the death standing behind me . I might not die with my fist in the air. But I'm also not going to die like some scared dog with its tail tucked inbetween its legs.

    If and when I see my wife again, I'm going to make sure she's proud of me.
     
  16. mustlivelife

    mustlivelife Knows nothing!

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    What happens after a revolution depends on how the system is changed, whether people are fooled into believing that things have changed when they haven't. Of course, revolutions go around and around, as the name suggests, so maybe any approach will end with the same result. The thing is, if the people don't show that they will not be pushed around, that they are a force to be reckoned with, then they will not be understood. What you've got to realise is the language that many people and especially those in power speak today. Rape is nothing to them. Breaking "marriage" vows is nothing. Killing is nothing, even by the million.

    To "them" we are cattle. They are not our governents, they are our keepers. Would a farmer stop milking a cow because the cow loved him and the other cows? No. The farmer doesn't understand the cow in that way, he just milks the cow so he can make his money. But if the cow, say, aims a hefty kick at the head of the farmer every time he comes near the cow's udder; that farmer is going to have a serious think before he milks that cow.

    The revolution headed by Ghandi, that was pretty peaceful and all about love, eh? And look at India now. Look at that shit and tell me a peaceful revolution had any different results. What matters in this revolution is stopping the people who have the power and taking the power back from them. What matters in this revolution is that the whole world joins in, that everyone who should be in is in, so there be no escape for the targets.

    Once again, I have to say that I do not disagree with your outlook. If everyone had your outlook then we wouldn't be in this situation to start with and you'd be a great sort of person for providing a basis for society and a reason to rebel against this one. I just can't see this going anywhere without violence. It is impossible to get without taking when it comes to the power game.
     
  17. Voice of Truth

    Voice of Truth Member

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    You are not only a wondeful and warm humanbeing but you're also very passionate. Passion is what gives all art its vision and passion is one of the things that seperates us from animals.

    So let me say that it's an honor to love you as a fellow being on this planet and it has been an honor debating with you.

    Peace and love to you.
     
  18. Voyage

    Voyage Noam Sayin

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    And how does this statement make you any better than "slaves"? You're a sad excuse of a human being if you would really do that and no better than the people you decry.
     
  19. mustlivelife

    mustlivelife Knows nothing!

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    You don't know the slaves in particular of which I speak. lol I won't be killing anyone unless I really have to, I hope. Seriously, nobody's going to miss them and for our world to run smoothly we need a huge drop in population.

    I hope everyone realises this, too. All this love is ok in theory but what if we fail to bring the human population to a sustainable level? Love will have to be abolished in favour of thinking not driven by emotion or human wants, just a cold scientific formula. Love is just another piece of wool over our eyes, I think.
     
  20. walsh

    walsh Senior Member

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    I can't believe people still have faith in revolutions at all. If we are still fundamentally the same human beings that were shaped by our cultural history, then society following a revolution will only be different on a very superficial level. The corruption is bound to set in.
     

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