Anonymous and LulzSecurity Declare WAR on Governments, Banks and other Big Businesses

Every step your take into the monetary system the more damage you cause. You would be better off going straight over and spending that time empowering and helping those people that need it. Sending food over is only viable if that food is full of seeds for the impoverished to grow more food. Our monetary donations do nothing, our material donations do little. At the end of the day, the starving and impoverished must be in a position to help themselves. No amount of money we earn and spend or policies we enact or abolish will do anything to help them.

The system is corrupt, any action taken within it is corrupt, be it learning, saving, spending or qualifying. The system must be brought down in order for our problems to be solved. We require a paradigm shift of gigantic proportions.

It is not viable to talk about saving the poor or hungry without bringing the whole military industrial complex down, the complex only survives because the world is unjust. The machine feeds on their starvation. It is just not sensible to try and solve one facet of humaniy's problems anymore, they are all interconnected. As allthatistocome pointed out: We are dealing with a Hydra. You save someone from starving and someone else gets shot, you disarm the soldier but the rainforest is still being cut down and another has taken the soldier's place, meanwhile someone else is starving. It can't be done, we have failed. We have failed badly and the only thing left is to screw it up, chuck it in the bin and draw a new diagram.

 

First of all, right now I'd be trying to find someone to team up with and hop some borders, and hike or bike through all of the world we could. But I have a medical condition that would kill me after about 24 hours without money, thank you very much...

It's not true that money can't be used for good. However, small donations through evil systems obviously can't do good.

Education and free press/media, however, CAN do huge amounts of good, and I plan to do good through psychedelics.

But no, sending a dollar to a huge business front that says they'll feed some kid if you let them steal your money will not do any good. The only way to do good with money is to be dedicated, and once you have the money, STAY dedicated and not compromise your principles.

You see things as very black and white. Being unrealistic won't help anyone. The best way to change things is from the inside. Get rich, and shame the fuck out of walstreet, by actually doing good, while they need their hundred million dollar bonuses for a camp fire. I wish he gave more, but the world needs more people like bill gates. He's an incredibly generous person, who got rich by simply doing what he did best, and he's done a huge amount of good for it. (I say this while hating microsoft in it's current form.... but as a computer geek, I can't help but idolize bill-and he is sitting on serious money, but I don't think more than his kids will need will be passed on, and he's given millions upon millions)

 

The chances of you getting rich are now incredibly small. For every deposit you make into most bank accounts, you suck value out of other people's money and your own and give it to the banks. I hope you do your research properly and make a good choice of bank. You talk about money like it keeps you alive, like the money actually does things for people. Money does nothing, it is medicine that keeps people alive, food that feeds them. We'd all be better off without our monetary system. Do you understand how our monetary system functions and who controls it?

All this doing it from the inside confuses me slightly. Inside what? What exactly am I outside of? I'm still a human being, I'm still on this planet. People like Bill Gates change things from on top, not from inside. People have been trying to change things from the inside for hundreds of years now and we are still progressing in an awful direction. The system is designed to not be changed from inside, it's all an illusion. And you're falling for it. You are advocating playing their game and you haven't noticed that the table is rigged.

And what good can psychedelics actually do? What is this with people thinking that tripping your balls off is somehow beneficial to the human species?

Bill Gates is a big fat phoney. He has the money, therefore the resources to fix the world. He has had the money for a long time now. Why hasn't he done it? Apparently he's waiting to die before he gives his 50+ billion dollar fortune to his OWN charity, more money than he could ever need in this life and he's waiting to die before he gives it to the people who need it. More stinky bullshit for you to savour the aroma of.

 

You're not being very realistic. Ideally, we would be better off without a monetary system, but that doesn't change the fact that money is needed to live. Holistic medicine is great and I think should always be considered as an option, but modern medicine is part of the reason why we now enjoy longer life expectancies. The healthcare industry is corrupt as hell in America, but when a person is faced with the option of going into debt to pay for life saving medicine or dying, I think most reasonable people would probably gladly pay for the medicine.

Money isn't the problem, the greed for money is. If pharmeceutical companies only charged enough to pay for their research and pay their employees a decent salary, the money involved wouldn't be inherently evil. Its the fact that these industries are allowed to take record profits and charge ridiculous prices that creates evil. Human nature is to blame, not money itself.

The real problem is that our government is not protecting the interest of the people. Industries such as the pharmeceutical industry need to be tightly regulated to ensure that human greed doesn't interfere with the right to basic healthcare.

Do you practice what you preach? Are you currently living outside of the monetary system? How do you manage it? Do you live on a farm, grow your own food, kill your own animals, live completely out of the system? And if thats the case, how the hell do you get around paying taxes because whenever I plan out my move towards self sufficiency thats the part I always get stuck at.

I feel like you're probably paying into the system just as much as the rest of us.

refer to my signature.

Its been theorized by some that shrooms played a huge part in human evolution.

I don't really like the idea of advocating a drug for human advancement. It does sound silly. However, in the case of psychedelics I genuinely do feel like the world would be a better place if everyone wiped off the doors to their perception every once in a while.

 

it's only gonna lead to more loss of freedom... as governments decide to limit connectivity to the web even more and try to limit the access that these people have to the internet to 1) rally up people to help out and 2) perform the attacks.. the couple 1000s hackers are gonna make it worse for millions of people with internet in the end

 

How am I the first vote?

 

lol i was second :mickey:

 

I really don't understand the point in all of this except making me worried if I have money in the bank...

 

this^^^

i applaud what they are doing/trying to do .... but in a few years (months?) time there will be legislation in many countries that only "safe" internet sites can be accessed through internet service providers... and isp'ers will be obligated by law to surrender all the browsing information of their customers when demanded to

once again the geeks will then "own" the internet.. as they did before vbulletin, myspace, facebook, youtube et all became corporate whores ... but i've always thought that was a big part of the anon agenda all along

but.. who's to say that wouldn't happen anyway?

 

i posted a link that contained a discussion on this very point.. cept it got deleted

it's pretty much guaranteed that any corporation/bank/govt dept that gets hacked will make a very big show of the fact that customer information has been accessed and stolen, whether it has or not, to vilify the hackers ... which is a dirty tactic.. but a lil' dirt has never bothered such organisations :mickey:

 

Yeah, you are most definitely outside.

Which is why no one will ever take you seriously.

Money represents the things you're talking about, the fact is people don't do things for nothing.

Bill gates was an example, and he is remarkably well grounded in the world, for such a rich man. He's done a metric fuckton more good than you ever will, and will do several more of those fucktons before and after he dies.

If you don't know what good psychedelics can do, you obviously are not much less of a phoney than anyone else. On a collective level they can hopefully accomplish something, but on a personal level, there is no shadow of a doubt they can accomplish huge things.

 

Very good post, except the orange part.

He's here using a computer to argue with me, while I say we should all help people and build something better with what we have, which is somewhat broken. He's saying let's finish breaking it. If what he wanted happened, millions would die senseless horrible deaths, but at least he would be rid of his money. Sounds as greedy as the people who kill people for money, instead of for a lack of it.

But about the orange..... WHAT is wrong with a "drug"? Psychedelics are not only drugs, but some of the most special drugs there are, very strongly linked with people, and with peoples religious and spiritual feelings, and much much more. When properly used, psychedelics bring personal fulfillment and satisfaction, appreciation, and understanding from and about one's situation, help orient and organize one to better face challenges, and much more. There is nothing wrong with drugs, other than what the most disastrous part of modern politics uses as a handle to hold onto power and steal more from the people.

Giving people the objective look at things that psychedelics do is helpful, even vital, to mentally healthy living.

A huge part of the world's problems is created by religious conflict, which psychedelics have the power to greatly reduce, as well.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Everyone from the bottom up and top down benefits from properly guided and channeled tripping. If bill gates took a ten strip, the world would be a better place, and if a gangbanger in south central LA took a ten strip, the world would be a better place. And if a subsistence farmer in africa took a ten strip, the world would be a better place. Not to say anyone who doesn't want to take drugs should, but anyone who wants to should be fully able to.

And make no mistake, fully utilizing your brain, by whatever tweaking of neurotransmitters or other means you might use, is not lowly or to be frowned upon, unless it is harmful, such as opiate addiction or alcoholism, or tripping beyond one's abilities or in a way that causes damage. It is the pinnacle of human progress: discovering and using our brains to their fullest potential. (this is not to imply that one should trip all the time, or even much: the effects are lasting, if properly done, I don't expect to for weeks if not months, from this date)

You can buy a lot of problems away, like hunger, but you still can't buy human fulfillment and positive personality changes. It takes a combination.

Mustlivelife tried to downplay what I said, as though having people tripping would NOT benefit the human species. Because for all his humanitarian talk, he still only sees people as numbers. Maybe he doesn't like the numbers behind money, and likes human numbers a bit better, but that's still all they are to him. Each person is a sample of the human species, and if you can make their lives better, you have made the human species and it's existence that much better.

 

I know you are underlining the importance of ''proprely guided tripping'', but I just feel like there's some people that would never be at the point of being ''proprely guided''. I know it's just a matter of time before you attempt to grill me for participating in these discussions without ever having done psychedelics yet (or maybe not), but I just feel that no matter how you get in to the intriquicies of how powerful of a tool psychedelics can be and what not, most people will just end up not taking anything back apart from ''woaaah, that shit was fuuuuuuuuuucked uuuuuuuuup''.

I could be wrong though, looking forward to reading your opinion.

 

I don't think "most" people will look at psychedelics in such a shallow way. Even if they THINK they do, most people put a lot more value on that "fucked up" than they would imply, because everyone else just wants to get fucked up, and they're afraid of being the wimp that had a religious experience on acid, when everyone else just gets drunk on it.

But yes, a lot of people may walk away from psychedelics having gained nothing. And MOST of those people COULDN'T gain anything, because of the way psychedelics tend to bring you out. If they don't bring anything out, it's probably a pretty shallow person. Of course, this is not always true, and some people may not even FEEL them, and be very deep, complex, worthy people.

But no, I'm not pretending every person who takes psychedelics will have a breakthrough spiritual experience. But if they don't try, they'll never know.

Also, while you may only have so much room to talk, not having taken them, it doesn't mean you CAN'T talk, by any means. Remember, I'm all about freedom of choice and personal fulfillment, you don't have to do anything you don't want, of course.

 

Actually, that makes alot of sense. In speaking with people in my surroundings, I notice that some people were changed by psychedelics without even realizing it.

Just this weekend I was talking to this girl who was telling me she didn't think psychs were as big a deal as I was making them and that they are just ''fucked up''. Then she told me she didnt do drugs anymore, because she got really fucked up one summer. She was doing pills all the time, lost 20 pounds, basically she was becoming a druggie. Then one night she went to a rave, didnt sleep all night, and did shrooms the next day. That day, on shrooms, she looked at herself in the mirror for like an hour, freaked out at how skinny she looked and realizing what she'd become. She's been clean ever since.

This the girl telling me psychs are in no way life changeing! When I hear stories like that I don't even bother trying to convince people of how amazing their stories are. I just smile and I'm happy it happened.

I do WANT to, it's just that I've always been afraid. I always wanted to wait until I'm not afraid anymore, but I now realize that that's not going to happen. The thing is, I'm a control freak, and I now understand that a cosmic ass kicking of having control ''ripped away'' from me and be forced to just gravitate for a while is potentially what I need the most right now.

I'm actually trying to get some 4 aces right now, but I've been having a hard time with a certain RC company. We'll see.

lol, I think this thread is officially highjacked... sorry.

 

Ahh, well I'm still afraid of them, but I love them.

Best of luck to you. I've always found the hard part before and just after the onset, the anticipation can bend your mind as much as the psychedelic, it is scary waiting for it to come on, even if you know what's coming. But once it hits, EVEN if it's a difficult time, it's there and happening, and as such, you can deal with it, instead of worrying about how you WILL deal with it, if that makes sense.


That's a cool story about the girl on shrooms, I've seen that sort of thing several times. In particular, I knew a histrionic, seriously messed up, abused girl who I would have thought should not have psychedelics. But she spent several years tripping (way more than I ever have, or have even had access to, often at any one time even) and then on a moderate dose (a few tabs of acid) "found Jesus" (which really pissed me off at the time, it was this last 4/20 and she spontaneously decided drugs were bad and threw the pipe off a cliff moments before I got there, with the only bowl worth of weed loaded in it) and she's been clean since.... she's still insane, but her life is in order, and she's getting better. It wasn't the guided path that I would recommend for most people, but on the other hand, she wasn't "most" people, and it worked out for her in it's own, strange way. It didn't fix her, but there is no magic cure-all, and it sure as hell did more than anything else had for her.

Of course psychedelics can't just fix the world, they can only help individual people, but the population is just a bunch of people, if you can help someone see something in a better light you've helped the world that much. I think that mustlivelife should think about that, for all his(her?) high and mighty talk about moving past money and everything, helping a single person be more comfortable with themselves and better able to face the world is helping the world. (also, yes, being as rich as bill gates is rare, but if everyone understood the need to actually help people if they DID get that rich, well those who got that rich would help more people, ehh?)

 

And as you prattle on, talking in sleep, I close my eyes and wish and wish for the revolution to come, in the form of an angry mob or a bomb, I wish it on. Good luck fixing the world with trips and cash.

The arrest of Anonymous participants in the UK is what started all this, I think. After the DDOS attacks on Amazon etc, 5 or so young hacktivists were arrested. Anonymous said that if they were not released then they would interpret it as an act of war. I can't see them hurrying to phase 2 over 1 member but maybe they are that honourable. I think it's fortunate he was arrested, after all they put him on the national (and I assume international) news. Any publicity is good publicity.

To Meliai & Roorshack: I'm not going to answer any of the other stuff because I don't think you really want my answers but I haven't ever paid council tax, just decided not to and ignored all of their letters and I haven't paid income tax for 2 years through cash in hand working, so your feeling is wrong. And I emptied my bank accounts and boycotted the banks 2 years ago. And within a few months I will be practicing what I preach 100% when I leave for the wilderness, hopefully never to return. Although if the revolution happens the way I want it to then I shall return to look after my poor naive family, who I feel would not cope well at first. And as for millions of people dying senseless, horrible deaths... WAKE UP, MILLIONS ARE DYING HORRIBLE SENSELESS DEATHS. This is why we need a revolution. Psychedelic drugs will NEVER replace education and action, you are so biased it is unreal.

 

I think they should be known as BBWWKAT - beardy basement wankers who know about technology or Group 4-tehlulz