Any Hippie Libertarians Out There?

Most libertarians want to abolish as much government as they practically can. Make things less about the government and more about the individual. Get the governments hands out of everything that happens in this country and make them what the government was intended to be in the first place, and enforcer of the constitution and kind of a referee (not a force that determines every aspect of our lives)..... It is about helping individuals take more control over their own lives & Taking the government out of private decisions.

 

Libertarian socialism..?
Hmmm, strange concept..
don't those two kind of
cancel eachother out?

 

Libertarian Socialism is a concept I support. It's socialism without the goverment, it won't work on a large scale and it isn't meant to.

 

The issue is not a removal of people helping others, it's getting the government to but out! Individuals are responsible. It makes YOU responsible for people, and ME and EVERYONE ELSE responsible for EVERYONE ELSE. That's better on SO MANY LEVELS. Specifically because giving the government control over a service establishes a complete monopoly, all the people on those programs are subject to the will of the government and policy makers in Washington.

By removing the governments involvement more independent welfare systems and care giving opportunities would mean different people could get the kind of support they need from several places, instead of placing all the burden on a system that is sure to become corrupt or ineffective.

The same goes for economic policy, give the government too much control over the economy and it's no wonder our cost of living soars as our average salary struggles to keep up.

I suppose there's no real way to "agree" it's just how you answer this question:

"As a citizen of a country what do you feel you're entitled to, and whose responsibility is it to make sure you get it?"

I think welfare and support systems are good, I think a government implementation of those systems is NOT. it's not the country's job to take care of me, it's not the governments job to decide what's best for me. It's mine, and there is someone else out there who probably feels like their job is helping people... everything fits together without the middle man.

 

There is a basic response to responsabilty most people have. "Why ME? Why not HIM?'' It's sad but you can't deny that.

No laws to set a minimum salary? No laws to regulate capitalism? No laws to prevent big companies from creating monopolies? No laws to prevent companies from raping the Earth?


Of course if everybody was nice, caring, loving and intelligent people, libertarianism would work... the problem is you can't change the system until you've changed the people in it.

 

Nope, none of them at all, or at least much less of them. And why? Because we have those laws now and look around. Everything is all fucked up anyway, granted I notice you're not from the US so I make no assumptions about Canada...

We have companies creating monopolies via the use of dummy corporations and buyouts... we have price gouging, we have people being punished financially because of poor lending practicies on behalf of our major banks...

So maybe the laws are in place, and maybe every so often we get some nasty company to pay some fines to the government, but ultimately all we're doing with those laws is deciding WHICH COMPANIES get to do that shit... Haliburton anyone?

Quite true... but what of the second option? Remove the people in it completely. That's what minimum government is about. The less people in government the better. Walk around and talk to people, the majority of the people you meet are just like yourself. It's not the people in the country that's the problem it's the people we choose to represent the fairly normal lot of us.

PS - Nice screen name

 

I agree that the laws arn't totally efficient. Yes, there's a more basic problem and it's in the people's mind (greed). However, I fail to see how removing the laws will encourage people to be share with the poor.

You can't have people with no system... by system I meant "wich way do we manage to live in society". Libertarianism is just another system

You are more optimistic than me on that.

Thank you!

 

100% right on, although i consider myself more of an anarcho-capitalist lately.

 

Yeah I wouldn't call myself a Libertarian but I do want Ron Paul to be the next President..
I favor as little Federal Gov't as possible... and States rights...

 

Here in the UK we don't even have a libertarian party.

The Liberal Democrat Party? Not remotely Libertarian i'm afraid!

And Shane, yes I used to be passionately in the left-liberal camp too...But things have changed dramatically.

I've realised Capitalism isn't the enemy, it's the state interfering in our civil liberties and right to free trade that is. Anarchists, left-liberals and the authoritarian left aren't really liberal because they are interfering in our right to trade freely. So even Anarchists are being authoritarian since they are intefering in our personal freedom.

Libertarianism is for me about the most 'natural' philosophy there is in terms of how we should organise our societies. Human nature is generally good natured and rational. Social security and state pensions are theft plain and simple because they are involuntary. I'd rather not pay tax and use that extra money in my pay packet to sort out my own pension. As for social security, i'm sick to death of seeing people who could work leach off my wages. Pure laziness. Socialism has it's heart in the right place but unfortuantely it only props up this laziness. For those who can't work for genuine reasons (poor physical or mental health) there are charities, religious support groups and generous wealthy people.

 

No way. I'm living in a red state, but a hippie Libertarian nonetheless!

 

I consider myself independent, but I support many libertarian policies.

I can't stand dem and rep politics..

 

Libertarianism: the belief that Blackwater and KBR/Halliburton are over-regulated.

 

No you are so incredibly wrong i'm afraid.

They (Private mercenary corps like Blackwater) wouldn't exist in a libertarian society. The sole reason corporations like these exist are in at least part due to the over-regulation of the economy. If the government didn't interfere with our basic human right to free trade and didn't STEAL our income through taxation to fight ridiculous wars like the 'war on terror' and the 'war on drugs' then their wouldn't be a market for Blackwater and so they wouldn't exist in the first place.

It's the governments fault these corporations exist. It's reactionary.

 

that's not libertarianism.

Marty Beckerman interviews Matt Taibbi, Rolling Stone's chief political reporter.

 

Blackwater and KBR do exist, however, and giving them absolute freedom to do as they wish isn't likely to put them out of business. As long as humans still have that inherent bug called "greed," there's going to be a market for the services of people who shoot first and ask questions later.

Don't be surprised if you see machine gun nests and Blackwater guards at every major mall and Walmart in the country within ten years. Consumers would eat that shit up, malls that don't would go out of business, and before you know it, we'll have them at every public event of every type, from high school football games to the Boston Marathon. With helicopter gunships circling above.

The American people are into a military craze that isn't going to stop until a few tens of millions of people have died, and it will be the private sector more than the government driving it in the coming years. The hundreds of billions from our government was startup money only. Now that they've grown up, they're prepared for the volume of business the market will provide them. I really believe this.

But it's all this just my opinion, I've been wrong before!

 

"Blackwater and KBR do exist, however, and giving them absolute freedom to do as they wish isn't likely to put them out of business."

You need to think about the wider picture.

The reason mercenary corporations such as blackwater exist is because of neo-conservatives fighting wars for oil supplies using religion to justify it. They are right-wing authoritarians and in my opinion are borderline facsists...They believe in a strong military and a retsricted regulated economy as well as eroding civil liberties and human rights.

Libertarians do you not believe in conscription and are generally anti-war. If you come across people claiming to be liberatrians who support the war for oil in Iraq then they are most DEFINITELY NOT libertarians. They are right-authoritarians.

Sure, humans are greedy, I accept that, but I also know for a fact humans are also generally good natured. It's just when the state interfere with our freedom it brings out the worst in us. Hence corporations like Blackwater exist. It's a reaction to statism.

Examples; The drug war. The state profit out of it's illegality. Alcohol and nicotine are the most profitable legal drugs even though they are worse than many illicit drugs. That speaks volumes.

The same applies to any restritced market. Gold smuggling, prostitution, and so forth..You ban a product or service that is in demand it automatically creates a black market...

 

Dude, that's what we're are saying, you said libertarianism is what you are describing, but that not true, libertarianism would stop that from happening as the government wouldn't give them the monopoly to do such things.

The drive is from the State and Corporations(which only exist because of the State). So limiting the powers of the state, especially regarding corporatism, limits the power of both.

Libertarians are business friendly, not corporate friendly, there is a difference.

 

Well said Shane.

I think people here need to read up a little on libertarianism.

I've met so many people calling themselves libertarians then espounding a load of left-liberalist ideology at me. Similary i've met a lot of people who call themselves libertarians who turn out to be conservatives who for example support the war in Iraq and Bush's neo-conservative administration.

 

"The point is that if you don't give a fuck you shouldn't be forced to give a fuck by paying taxes that go to welfare."

True, I agree totally. But if you feel that way, you should also not be permitted to live in this country, or to call yourself an American, and you would probably function best in the general population at a correctional institution.