Anybody can write a book....

Feel better now? Good. Now let's get back on topic, kay?

 

B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T-T-E-R.

 

Whatever you need to think....

 

No
Topic...yes

 

Internal evidences, or what the Bible says about itself, can be very revealing about integrity of those who wrote it. For example the story in which women are the finders of the empty tomb of Jesus would be very embarrassing, in a day in where women where regarded as unreliable and, in fact, they couldn't even give testimony in a court of law. Human tendency would be tempted to leave such things out if the story were fabricated--it ones creating a false religion, why start off by making it look bad?

Personal testimony isn't least to me...thanks for assuming, though...I just didn't want it to be the answer given

Good, the Gospels are full of testimony.

I didn't say it was false...I just don't believe it.

Ok..., why don't you believe it?

The whole new testament contradicts the whole old testament.....

That's a bit of an overstatement don't you think? Anyway, I have yet to run into this problem.

BTW....I wasn't asking for an apology...just an explanation of why you think the bible is the way to go....

Yes, you're asking for an apology, apologia, or a "defense of"--you're asking for someone to defend, or justify their position on the Bible.

 

Contradiction. The whole belief itself. It's....bogus.

Not really an overstatement. If you've yet to read the entire thing, I don't see why you would run into....

Ah...glad you FINALLY cleared it up...I was really getting pissed about that, dude!
I thought you meant an apology such as *I'm sorry for believing what I do*.

 

"How many steps removed from an idiot?" as Mark Twain might say.

No one denies they were clever.

I would have done the same.

 

Contradiction. The whole belief itself. It's....bogus.

Please elaborate..I'm listening!

Not really an overstatement. If you've yet to read the entire thing, I don't see why you would run into...

You haven't read very many of my posts have you? (not just this forum, but the previous one also)

 

Yes geckopelli, those were some clever little devils; they knew that there were many embarrassing and crippling marks for their false religion at the time, but 2000 years later people in a completely different social context would view it as a sign of integrity...that is, of course, if they could even manage to get the thing started at all. Yep, gotta hand to 'em, these weren't your average Joe Six-Packs!

 

You are blinded by faith. A judgemental christian? And your savior is...?

I've never said they didn't believe it; I just said it doesn't hold water in todays world. For the most part, they didn't know what they were talking about.

Your beliefs in biblical literacy are a force of stagnation in the world. Therein lies the path to decadence.

Organized religion is a dinosaur that needs to go the way of all dinosaurs.

 

You are blinded by faith.

Have you done a study on what faith is? Do you know what Biblical faith is?

A judgemental christian? And your savior is...?

I don't follow.

I've never said they didn't believe it; I just said it doesn't hold water in todays world. For the most part, they didn't know what they were talking about.

Didn't believe what? What specifically doesn't hold water? Who didn't know what they were talking about, and in what regard. Elaborate.

Your beliefs in biblical literacy are a force of stagnation in the world. Therein lies the path to decadence.

You're welcome to your opinions, how ever misguided they are.

 

What kind of book would you write, Gecko? Can't wait to hear!

 

Jatom...I'm looking for that contradiction stuff right now...I'll have it up soon!



And gecko...I want to be the first to know if and when you DO write a book..I like the way you say things!

 

"And what wrong way was that? Pointing out that NOONE who responded to this thread gave an answer to the question? Well excuse the fuck out of me. Next time I'll stick to questions about who has a crush on whom in the forums...THAT always gets the answers....
SHE will never grow out of it..."

There is no reason to get emotional, my dear; just as there is no reason to start a cycle of insults.

"A judgemental christian? And your savior is...? "

That was extremely amusing.

 

jatom,
"Have you done a study on what faith is? Do you know what Biblical faith is? "

Yes. Do you?


A judgemental christian? And your savior is...?

"I don't follow."

I'm willing to bet that Jesus had a sense of humor.


"Didn't believe what? What specifically doesn't hold water? Who didn't know what they were talking about, and in what regard. Elaborate."

The story of creation, to poke a sore spot. World-wide floods . A god whose plans are so insignifacant that he is willing to change them just for the faithful who prey.

None of your wisemen knew why fire burned, or why the stars shine. And millions of other bits of info that are at your disposal.

I could go into boring details and name names, but I'm not here to teach bible studies. Nor do I any longer find interest in tales designed for an infant race.

Why not procure a copy of ASIMOV'S GUIDE TO THE BIBILE, vol 1 and 2 and learn?

Your beliefs in biblical literacy are a force of stagnation in the world. Therein lies the path to decadence.

"You're welcome to your opinions, how ever misguided they are"

They didn't know about trichanosis, but they knew eating pork had a good chance of making one sick.

Should we have simply have never eaten pork and never investigated the how of it?

Your way we eat kosher. Forever.

My way we learn about food posioning and the need for refrigeration and food preservation methods in general.
We improve the Human Condition.

Which way would your god endorse?

 

Geckopeeli, I wonder if you DO know what biblical faith is?
Generally speaking its no different than anything.
There is no 'Other' concept at work here.

Example: I have 'faith' the Aztecs lived in the Americas. (not proof)
In the same way:
I have 'faith' that Jesus lived in Nazareth. (not proof)

Ok fair enough but there is more:

I have 'faith' that following my Doctors orders will improve my health. (again.. no 'proof')
I have 'faith' that following Jesus teachings will improve my spiritual (emotional, mental) health.

It seems to me that you consider 'Faith' to be different from 'believing something is true'?

You believe by 'Faith' the Sun will rise tomorrow.
I believe by 'Faith' Jesus will return to Earth.

There is no difference in the 'faith' just because the object of faith is different.

Last I checked pretty much every geologist in the world is convinced that most every portion of the Earth has been flooded.
Many have 'Faith' it happened over tens of thousands of years.
Not a sore-spot unless you are attempting to put faith in the believe there were not world-wide floods?

I don't understand why they would be any less Wise because they did not know the deeper detailed description of fire burning or light?[/QUOTE]
Im sure someone will uncover even more detailed knowledge of combustion - will that discredit any wisdom our generation has to offer?

So far I don't see any reason to believe you can teach bible studies, however I would appreciate hearing more if you really have it?

Have no idea how you could describe Greco-Roman civilization and the Jews within it as 'Infant'.
You might want to study history and the great literature, art and philosophy which our best modern scholars call unsurpassed by any culture including our own.[/QUOTE]

I may just procure a copy. Since we are offering opinions.. i dont have a high one of Asimov, but.. in fairness I will look for it.

I think this is a good point - They knew it made them sick. They were not 'primitive' or 'unwise' becasue they did not have microscopes and thousands of researchers categorizing it.

So a God with scientific knowledge 'tips them off'?
Now there is a time and place to find out the details of 'why'.

As to 'Kosher' - It seems to me you have no knowledge of the New Testament or what that means?
By 'Jatoms' way (if I can speak for him) then Kosher eating is a thing of the past.
Went out about 2000 years ago.

'Your way' is not your way - if - you were born 5000 years ago with those people.
In fact, the only reason you know anything about trichanosis is from what other people and books have told you.
You also have 'faith' in what they told you based on what knowledge you can find and test right?

Seems pretty clear he endorses truth-finding.
Its throughout the New and Old testaments that all 'Truth' is good and his creation is worth comtemplating.
This was very inspiring to Christians who went on to created some of the most scientifically advanced civilization in history.
You enjoy the benefits of that now (being born long after it was started)

 

"You believe by 'Faith' the Sun will rise tomorrow.
I believe by 'Faith' Jesus will return to Earth.

There is no difference in the 'faith' just because the object of faith is different."

I've explained this many times.
This is not correct. The sun will rise because it's movement can be calculated. Where is Jesus right now? Where will he be in 3,000 seconds? When will he rise?

I can tell you preciesly where the sun is, and describe it's relative movement- inevitably, it will rise tommorow.
Even if every last one of us dies tonight.

"Last I checked pretty much every geologist in the world is convinced that most every portion of the Earth has been flooded.
Many have 'Faith' it happened over tens of thousands of years.
Not a sore-spot unless you are attempting to put faith in the believe there were not world-wide floods?"

Misconstrued. Your facts are uncoordinated.
Tens of thousnds of years ago are not a biblical concern; there were no tens of thopusands of years ago according to the bible.

Nor do geologist believe in SIMULTANEUOS world wide flood. All parts of the world may have been flooded individually, but not all at once in 40 days and certainly not all at once within the last 7000 years.

"I don't understand why they would be any less Wise because they did not know the deeper detailed description of fire burning or light?[/QUOTE]Im sure someone will uncover even more detailed knowledge of combustion - will that discredit any wisdom our generation has to offer?"

Then let me explain: Your wise men were big fish in a bare puddle of knowledge. We live in a ocean of it now.

Would the the bible be word for word what it is if it had been written today?

"So far I don't see any reason to believe you can teach bible studies, however I would appreciate hearing more if you really have it?"

The bible became an annoyoing fable to me long ago.
Since there is no external evidence for it's required premise- a super being- what is the point of discussing points that rely on that assumption?
It's a literary study, akin to studying Shakesphere. Boring and useless.

I first read the bible under dire circumstances- 30 days in the hole with NOTHING but a bucket and a bible. You can bet I studied that book.

I got more out of DUNE.

"Have no idea how you could describe Greco-Roman civilization and the Jews within it as 'Infant'.
You might want to study history and the great literature, art and philosophy which our best modern scholars call unsurpassed by any culture including our own"

I am refering to thier level of Knowledge. The romans used spears. They thought the sun was a god. And then they changed to the son. Young men entered the military for the privlige of rape and pillage. The flu had the potential to wipe them out.

Literature, arts, and philosophy are not science nor SOURCES of knowledge. They are homocentric endevors- just like religion. They are important only to people.

Knowledge of the Universe holds even with no people.

"I think this is a good point - They knew it made them sick. They were not 'primitive' or 'unwise' becasue they did not have microscopes and thousands of researchers categorizing it."

So after generations, some old guy figures out that he's seen 50 people eat pork, get sick, and die.
Where's the need for god? occam's razor.

"As to 'Kosher' - It seems to me you have no knowledge of the New Testament or what that means?
By 'Jatoms' way (if I can speak for him) then Kosher eating is a thing of the past.
Went out about 2000 years ago."

Precisely my point! Why does jatom ignore the original eating rules? Change was good once, why not now?
Is being stuck 2000 years in the past really better than 4000?
You're invited to join the present.

"'Your way' is not your way - if - you were born 5000 years ago with those people.
In fact, the only reason you know anything about trichanosis is from what other people and books have told you.
You also have 'faith' in what they told you based on what knowledge you can find and test right?"

This is just argumentative without point.

I wasn't born 5000 years ago.

You can go to school and learn biology- no accepteance of magic required.

If by "faith" you mean I don't believe there is a giant conspiracy to construct elaborate, detailed sciences just to fool me, then you're right. Tricanoshisis can be isolated and looked at- and I have done so.

"Seems pretty clear he endorses truth-finding.
Its throughout the New and Old testaments that all 'Truth' is good and his creation is worth comtemplating."

Very good, And why are those particular passage ignored by christian churches in general?

Science seeks to contemplate and understand. Religion wishes to control all conclusion.

So I guess your god endorses me, for I study his reality, not a book.

"This was very inspiring to Christians who went on to created some of the most scientifically advanced civilization in history.
You enjoy the benefits of that now (being born long after it was started)"

If religion wishes credit, take it all.

The most violent and oppressive societies in all of history are in the name of religion. Yes, some christian.
Your religion civilized the NO and SO American indians nearly to extiction.
The a-bomb is yours.
And hitler.
And WWII.
Need I go on?

Oh, we can't pass on without a nod to Gallileo.
-----
Whatever christianity once was, it a new day- time for christians to stop leaving thier christianity at the church.

Instead, abandon the church and take it with you.

 

"Whatever christianity once was, it a new day- time for christians to stop leaving thier christianity at the church.
Instead, abandon the church and take it with you."

That's great Gecko! If the church behaved as Jesus did the world would be a great place. Rome told us salvation and enlightenment comes from preists and God lives in magnificent temples... Jesus told us salvation is already ours and did most of his teaching in the wilderness. Pretty clever dude. Why Christianity stopped listening to him I will never know...

 

Even for me, it's nearly impossible to refute that Jesus was a GREAT man.

It's a crying shame what's been done in his name.

 

Accept the Bible or Reject Truth


"As a result, with all the fulfilled prophecies, archaeological and scientific proof a person who rejects the Bible would require more faith than a person that believes it. But still people will go to great heights to try to prove the Bible wrong just so they don't have to obey God's regualtions. But if they only knew that life was just a test with only two possible grades-Heaven or Hell-people would quickly turn and follow Jesus."


http://r-campbell34.tripod.com/proof/index.html