Anybody can write a book....

POPthree13, can you please explain these...

1. Messiah would be sold for 30 pieces of silver-Zech. 11:12

2. The Bible states that the Messiah would be the light to the gentiles. Who claimed to be the messiah and is now embraced by the gentiles but is rejected by the Jews?

 

I did learna great deal from the bible, but I too have come to make my own decisions. Rather than consult the bible to see if God says everything I do is okay, I do what I know/feel is right and what God wants. It's a book that follows Jesus' teachings, but is not written by him, therefore, not everything in it can be 100% accurate. It is humans' interpretations of what God wants when he says things, but humans each view things differently, God may have meant something completely different.

 

"It's a book that follows Jesus' teachings, but is not written by him, therefore, not everything in it can be 100% accurate. It is humans' interpretations of what God wants when he says things, but humans each view things differently, God may have meant something completely different."
-Sunburst




HOW DO YOU KNOW THE BIBLE IS A 100% TRUE?
-It was inspired by God. God put the thoughts into men's minds to create the Bible so the Bible could be used for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that people of God may be complete, equipped for every good work-2 Tim. 3:16,17



HOW DO YOU KNOW THE BIBLE WAS INSPIRED BY GOD?
-Fulfilled prophecy-the Bible predicts the future before it happens and scientifical proof...

http://r-campbell34.tripod.com/proof

 

Michael, what are you talking about...

The prophecy goes the Messiah would be sold for 30 pieces of silver. It was told in the Old Testiment (Zechariah 11:12) and then hundreds of years later Jesus was betrayed for 30 pieces of silver-which fulfilled that prophecy-recorded in the New Testiment (Matthew 26:14-15)

And on that same day Jesus fulfilled many of the other Old testiment prophecies concerning him.

 

That site didn't work. :sunglasse Thank you for wasting my time.

Blah! As if some blind deaf retard on the side of the road couldn't predict a war is inevitable, or that there WILL be poverty in places. Get some new material.

EVIDENCE? Oh, nevermind, I see the problem. You've been brain-washed by the upety Christian community.
You are forgiven.

 

"That site didn't work. Thank you for wasting my time."

-I guess this site http://r-campbell34.tripod.com/proof didn't work for you. I looked at that lame attempt to highlight contradictions in the Bible, but they are not contractiction at all as explained in this following quote from the website
http://bibledesk.com/

"..there were people who would show me what appeared to be contradictions in the Bible, yet these were not contradictions at all, but only a lack of research on the part of those that said these things."

Every appeared contradiction can be explained.



"Blah! As if some blind deaf retard on the side of the road couldn't predict a war is inevitable, or that there WILL be poverty in places. Get some new material."

-I guess predicting Jesus' life in detail hundreds and thousands a years before he walk the Earth is too vague. Along with predicting Israel and the Jews entire history in detail.

Also prophetic proof is not the only proof of the Bible, there is also archaeological and scientifical proof...but you would not know that because you have never looked into it..... Again here is a guy that was similar to your thinking ... http://r-campbell34.tripod.com/proof/id8.html ... but as he did the research he found the truth.

"EVIDENCE? Oh, nevermind, I see the problem. You've been brain-washed by the upety Christian community.
You are forgiven."

-Brainwashed, please the stuff I write on this site is hardly ever preached in the church. That is why there is so many weak Christians. Most Christians you ask, "Well where is the proof?" they either say "inspired by God" or "by faith" and thats it. But it is deeper than that. Yes the Bible is inspired by God... but how do we know that? Prophectic, Archaeological and Scientifical proof... You look at all these and you can see the God of the Bible is the real true God.

And God wants everyone to be with him. However, as the Bible says, most people will reject Jesus and deny the truth because they do not want to be under God's authority. But if they could only see that life was just a test with only two grades-heaven or hell-they would quickly follow Jesus.


Life is a mist, Eternity is forever....

 

Anything CAN be expalined, but how foolish is the explanation? How can Jesus be the ONLY begotten son when the old testament clearly refers to the Sons of God running rampant on the earth? How can the sun be created days after the 'day' was invented. Trying running that through a logical mind...

No... that's pretty much the junk you hear 'taught' in church.

Most of the archaeological evidence that exists on earth predates the bible and the religion. In fact if you are to beleive what biblical scholars would conclude is the date of creation, then most archaelogical artifacts are too old to exist on this planet. Man's progression from apes in the great rift of africa is very well documented and they started moving about the globe about 2 million years before the 'theoretical' creation.
Scientifical... I am not sure what that is, but it sure isn't scientific. Science has been persecuted by christianity ever since science started proving the church wrong a few hundred years ago. If science was helping the church so much then why did they imprison, torture or burn every great thinker they could get there hands on?

To deny the truth is to buy whatever they are selling. You bought it, but some choose not to. Jesus gave us a greta example in the pharisees. The 'truth' sets you free, the 'word' I hear coming from the church only serves to bind you.

 

way i see it is...yeh your right...anyone can write a book....and anyone did! lots of different writers contributed to it...like documentation on events. jesus was a guy who sed things...its a record of what a guy sed by many different interpretations. Like biographies today but with testimonies and events in too. roly.xxx (please dont be mean...seems most ppl are to me on this particular part of the forums)

 

Popthree13,

"Anything CAN be expalined, but how foolish is the explanation? How can Jesus be the ONLY begotten son when the old testament clearly refers to the Sons of God running rampant on the earth? How can the sun be created days after the 'day' was invented. Trying running that through a logical mind..."

1) The son of God is Jesus ..."the sons of God" were fallen angels who consorted with human women, producing giant offspring" Read more> http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/gen6sons.htm

2)God's days are much longer than ours as explained in II Peter 3:8, "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." Therefore, it took 6000 years to create the earth.


"No... that's pretty much the junk you hear 'taught' in church."

Yet a couple lines down you state, "Scientifical... I am not sure what that is, but it sure isn't scientific." Therefore, you do not no all the proofs of the Bible. What exactly do you know? What have you heard in church?

I know I am a Christian and I have been going to different churches all my life. Only a handful of the time has that pastor ever talked about the proofs of the Bible or the end-times, the stuff they should focus on the most. No wonder there is so many Christians that cannot defend their faith because they are never taught!The things I have talked about on this forum I did not learn from church.

"Man's progression from apes in the great rift of africa is very well documented and they started moving about the globe about 2 million years before the 'theoretical' creation."

Didn't you get the newflash the theory of evolution is dying off...
Turns out, Scientist discovered that this theory is not supported by the fossil record

Evolution has been around for about 100 years, yet no transpecies have ever been found (i.e. single cell >?> human). What is in between? Museums should be packed with tens of thousands of transpecie fossils yet the only fossils in the museums are of exstinct animal species or common to the species we have today.

Oh yeah, here is a website http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/index.shtml?main#creation_vs_evolution with all arguments for creationism I am ready to debate.

 

It does indeed seem the theory of Evolution is being abandoned.

Dying is a good word for it.

Its just that most of the public is not aware of this .. yet.

 

Anyone can write a Book, but only God can predict the future in detail. And if you have read the prophecies of the Bible, then you would know this is what God has done.

 

First off it's hard to even see the question because it's in the middle of your opinion. You sandwiched in between the answer you wanted to hear.

Second off the question can be answered simply or in a complicated nature. I'll go with simple because I'm sort of rushed for time. It's a matter of faith. You've never seen atoms but you know they are there right? Well, of course that's scientific fact right? Told to you by a bunch of people right? So, a bunch of people tell you it's fact that The Bible is the word of God but you don't believe them? It's perspective.

My faith is the Bible is the word of God. Do I always understand everything in it? No. Do I always understand other things that are in fact reality? No.

 

you can't really prove any of those prophecies, you weren't there and besides there is no evidence outside the bible. Im not saying don't be a christian, but i mean don't try to pull out that those things really happened, i want physical proof, not faith. That being said what propheices happened that we can be sure of through physical evidence?

What sacrifice was there really?


It says god sacrifced his son, but where was it, he didn't lose his son, he basically came to earth and got put in a coma for three days and got up and went back home to heaven, there was no forteiture. God didn't lose his son.

Another reason i doubht the exsiitense of a supreme deity is that if God is this all perfect being, then nothing out of him could be unperfect, he could not think unperfect,act unperfect, anything, yet he fucked up over and over again.... I mean if god was perfect from the beggining then he would need nothing else to complete him. He could fix his fuck ups, but there should be no fuck ups in the first place if he is all perfect. Here is a fun game to play.

http://brainsump.50megs.com/vintage/as/gs/index.html

You can believe what you like but i don't agree.

 

It's hard to believe that the detailed prophecies made in the Bible could have be done by good guessing or by deliberate deceit. The book of Daniel which was written before 530 B.C. accurately predicts the progression of kingdoms from Babylon through the Medo-Persian Empire, the Greek Empire, and then the Roman Empire and the suffering of the Jews under Antiochus IV Epiphanes. That's one of many fulfilled, detailed prophecies that were made hundreds of years prior to the fulfillment.

There is also the fact that it's writers were eyewitnesses or close associates of eyewitnesses. In the case of the eleven apostles and numerous other followers of Christ in the first century, eyewitnesses to Christ's ressurection, who were martyred for their faith, you have to ask yourself why these people would go through that if they knew his ressurection was a fraud. As it is often said, many people will die for what they believe but seldom will someone die for what they know to be a lie. If they were part of a conspiracy would they have endured that?

Archaeology and secular history is also a powerful witness to the accuracy of the Bible. And then there is the numerous manuscripts on hand, the earliest dating back to 120 A.D., which has been virtually unaltered in the Bibles around today. With the thousands of manuscripts available, it is possible in most cases to get back to the original documents because each person copying it would have probably made mistakes, but they wouldn't have all made the same mistakes and this makes it possible to get back to the original. this is seen in the manuscripts. they are not all exactly the same, as if they were one at a time copied from the previous copy, new errors in each one. by comparing them you can get back to the original.

more can be said but that's a start.

 

The thing is, the idea of a supreme deity or dieties in some cases is mans invention to explain things, even if the bible is the word of god, today it is NOT credible and has had things added to it, taken from it,there have been grammer errors,carelessness might have a cause to it. The hebrew god yehweh is so human its not funny, if god was real, the christian argument of faith is not an answer, if god was real god would prove to us god is real, not make us go through life in doubht, i mean if god cared so much, why wouldn't god help us out on these things?

 

I'm curious as to how you came to the conclusion that the bible is not credible today and that it has been changed. Do you mean grammaticaly or in substance and message? As far as God being "so human", the Scripture says that man was created in the image of God (Gen ch1:26-27) . This doesn't mean that we are equal to God but we do have some of the same personality traits that he is shown to have in Scripture. The Bible makes clear that God is spirit (John 4:24)

Jesus makes an interesting statement in John 3:19: "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil." In other words, it is not that we don't have enough light, but that we love evil and we don't want to acknowledge the light. For starters we have the light of creation, the universe we live in. We also have our moral consciousness. These are things that should be intuitively obvious to us. There are many valid arguments for the existence of God, but even beyond that God has revealed himself to us through his word, the prophets found in it and then fully through Jesus Christ. He has told us about himself, what he is like and has called us to be reconciled to Him through his son Jesus Christ. Christian faith is not a blind faith, it's based on evidence. it's a leap in to the light not into the dark.

So, in light of the evidence and many powerful arguments for the existence of God and the validity of the Bible, is faith really not an answer? the bible is clear that faith is based on truth. there is no conflict between faith and reason for Christians. It should also be pointed out that God is not hiding from us. Paul points out in Acts ch17 that "From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us."

Again, much more could be said on this.

 

This is a bit of circular reasoning here. While Daniel is set durring the Babylonian captivity the book itself makes no claim to having been written in that period. It's written, for the most part, in the third person which means it could have been written at any time.

Most scholars believe the book of Daniel to have been written in it's present form during the reign of the Maccabees, which would place it's authorship sometime in the first cent BC, after the prophesies it contains had already been fullfilled.

In any case there's no reason for even the most staunch literalist to think it was written in the timeframe you gave, in that the story itself makes no claim to that effect.

the only reason anyone could possibly have for stating the story was written durring the Babylonian captivity would be to make it an acceptable demonstration of fullfilled prophisie.

Like I said, circular reasoning.

Of course you could just as easly say that attributing a post-fullfillment date of authorship is circular reasoning on the other end but my point is;

There's no way to know when this book was written, and there's no reason--historical or biblical--to assume it was written in durring the captivity.

What are you basing this on? The only biblical reference to the martyrdom of an apostle is that of James (Acts 2:12).

The next refrence we have is in a letter of Clement, the first bishop of Rome, sometime in the early second cent. when he talks about the mayrtordom of Peter.

If you accept Clements credibility than you also have to accept his claim (as well as Herecletian's) that Matthew died of natural causes, despite the numourous (conflicting) traditions about his martyrdom.

Interestingy enough noneof the early church fathers makes any reference to any of the apostles having suffered martydom until Tertillain mentions an unsuccesful attempt to execute John sometime in the early 3rd cent.

So, again, what are you basing this on?

 

They know the Dead Sea scrolls were written 2,000 years ago, and found within those scrolls are the prophecies that speak about the return of the Jews to the land of Israel in the latter days. Much detail about their return will be found there. Of course, if you don't want to believe those prophecies or the Bible, you will turn a deaf ear to what they say. The events that are happening today can be found in the Bible in detail. You simply have to look at what has been happening in Israel in the last 60 years, and then consider what the Bible stated would be happening near the end of time. The Bible tells us that near the end, world attention would be focused on Jerusalem. The Bible also tells us, that in the latter days, Jerusalem will be a cup of trembling to the nations. The Bible states that at this same time, Jerusalems East Gate will still be sealed, and will remain sealed until God returns and opens it.

 

don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to be an ass, i just question things, and the idea of the god of the bible, hell and heaven, kind of just sounds illogical, i mean how did they determine they were over 2,000 years old?

 

Scientist were able to determin that the scrolls were written during the time Roman occupied Jerusalem. The scrolls were discovered in caves outside of Jerusalem back in 1947. It has taken many years to restore them, because of their age.

I think the fact that we are standing on a ball floating in space spinning at 24,000 miles an hour talking about God is equally illogical. Yet, here we are.