Are you guys ready for $6 gas in 18 months?

Nationalized oil in a country that has vast oil reserves, and isn't tied to the dollar.

Are you suggesting we nationalize our oil?

That would help prices, not combat the fact that we have to drastically alter our energy infrastructure.

You just talked about lowering demand a post ago.

The only thing that's going to lower demand is high prices.

 

Your dodging the fact that fuel reform is not the sole answer. You're failing to show any consideration of the argument that there are a number of reserves with abundant supplies and the fact that if transportation reform were a more prevalent issue the abundant reserves that are readily available, without drilling, would be more than ample to sustain throughout the transition.

 

I never said it was. I simply named one of a handful of countries which are not suffering form the same logistical reasons for increasing oil prices.

I don't see how you can think it's realistic to compare the market factors of US to the UAE or Venezuela.

 

Wrong. A strong emphasis on public transportation reform will lower demand. Seattle has hybrid busses. My city doesn't have a single 'express' bus to its name.

I could bus to work if there were a park and ride or an express bus anywhere in my city.

A lot of people could, and would.

 

Not at all. I stated that the advantages of this would be curbing demand and increasing the closeness of which people moved to the city. It's already happened.

Obviously there are still reserves. I never said we didn't have any more. I've simply loosely stated the obvious point that there is a smaller supply than there was. It's a fairly facile market point which I didn't feel the need to dwell on.

We will sustain through the transition. It'll just be a transition with higher prices. And the higher prices are all that will spark the transition.

 

And there are plenty of countries throughout the world where the price of gas is SUBSIDIZED. Key word that you've chosen to ignore.

 

The main driving force for the increase of use of public transportation we're seeing now, is high prices.

http://redgreenandblue.org/2008/06/06/gas-prices-fuel-increase-in-public-transportation/

So no, not 'wrong!'

 

We do subsidize oil.

We have very small taxes on oil companies, we have low sales taxes on gasoline, and we have programs that provide very inexpensive exploration costs, government funded oil development programs.

We wage oil wars for them.

We do in fact subsidize oil.

 

I will sustain. You may sustain. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, wont.

It's a corporate mechanism to further the gap between the lower and middle class and the middle and upper class. Not going conspiracy or anything, but it is what it is.

Along with disappearing investment benefits in the form of tax breaks on capital gains and dividends next year this is going to be a disaster for the middle class. The lower class will do exactly as prescribed and move closer to work and take the bus. Some will undoubtedly accept lower paying jobs to do so. They will subsidize with welfare and medicare further stretching the tax dollar.

The reality of it is, public transportation solutions are a far more immediate concern for the average person and this garbage rhetoric you've heard all over fox news that you insist on repeating about, "change could never happen without this current crisis" is sheepish crap. We have hybrid cars already. We have solar cars too. Yes we started too late, and yes we should increase our efforts, but the price of gas is not a muse by any means.

 

Plenty of west coast cities have very advanced public mass transportation options that cover a large amount of the 'grid'. Many of these cities have reaped the benefits and are highly active, prosperous cities. Far beyond that of otherwise very similar mid-west and east coast areas.

Why then is $6 gas used as a form of inspiration to make a change that smarter cities made years ago and have obviously benefited from?

Economic development started the trends of public transportation and lead many a metropolis to invest heavily in them. Ignorance does not equate to correctness.

Edit: $4/gal is subsidized adequately compared to .48? I was thinking more along the lines of negotiations involving the elimination of subsidized gas prices abroad more so than overly subsidizing our own gas prices.

 

I've stated the reasons for increased cost of gas. If you'd like me to ellaborate, I will. But your claims of this being a corporate game to widen income gaps is facile.

And theres no rhetoric about it. The price of oil is behind the current increase of public transportation. I just posted an article.

The price is effecting demand, that's basic economics. The price of oil will effect demand and decrease outsourcing and have more people move into the cities, all of which are positive.

 

Because other cities would not be looking heavily into it without $6 gas. now that gas prices are rising, all other even medium sized cities are looking into it.

If you're saying that looking into it sooner was a wiser move, than sure, I agree with that. But I'm nor sure how you're stating that high gas prices don't drastically increase the demand for public transportation.

It's well known, well documented and intuitive.

 

"Price effects demand"

"There is less gas today"

All blanket statements generally known and, well... rather obvious. I've pointed out numerous reasons why the supply is not low enough to justify such an increase in overall pricing.

When I was 15, gas fluctuated around $1.00/gal. I'm 24 and paying $4.20 a gallon. If soda went up by the same percentages, a can would cost me almost $2 today.

Nodding in agreement to $6 gas is just ignorant man. Somebody of your intelligence should be able to see 100 holes in that shit, easily.

 

And I've still yet to understand how inflation is so out of control when the average rate of inflation for the past 10 years is around 5% if not less when the 70's and 80's saw 10 and 13% figures?

 

I'm saying there should've been state and federal mandates years ago and that this was purposely allowed to happen. And I'm stating that beyond numbers on a paper you have nothing to show me that we don't have enough oil to sustain for another century or more with transportation overhaul mandates in place.

I say its bullshit.

 

As I've said, there are much larger issues.

China and India's insatiable growing demand for fuel, along with the rest of the world. The rising demand has had much more to do with the price than diminishing supplies.

The growing demand and no discoveries of really large wells are causing speculation about the cost of oil in the future are making more people invest in oil futures increasing the cost.

The fact that the dollar is almost a third less valuable than it was ten years ago is also come into play.

And the fact that a decade ago, we were paying an artificially deflated price for oil.

The market for oil is fairly transparent. I know the rapid increase makes us want to look for something sinister, and I'm not really concerned if you want to believe that.

But it's been coming and it was obvious. It's going to get worse as demand increases, not simply as supply decreases.

We're not going to lower demand as much as the developing worlds demand will increase.

 

I never said we we're running out of oil.

We can make oil. In an eventually large scale pretty soon to keep us afloat.

And our desire for energy will never seriously drop. Our planet will always consume more energy for as long as we're stll growing.

But I am saying these prices we're coming, and we didn't do anything about it because we simply didn't have the leadership.

Nobody payed attention to it. It was deliberate inaction on our part that we didn't avert it, not deliberate action on someone else who caused it. It's our cultures fault, not the people who didn't warn us.

People fucking warned us.

That's our society. But now things are getting bad, and people will start paying attention.

 

The rapid increase doesn't make me bitter. I know I need gas to do what I want to do and I consider gas one of my luxuries. I buy clothes at value city and wal mart to instead of the gap and old navy because I'd rather have gas than name brand clothes. I will not be hurt because I've never considered gas a necessity to begin with.

The transparency of the situation points to obvious ignorance of the issue, which has been topic of discussions for ever. I'm sure it doesn't hurt that the people who could've most prevented this, and affected change, are the same people who are largely benefiting from this current "gas crisis".

 

That is so intense, lode. By then Ill be in some meteropolis, with a bicycle if necessary. Thats my plan hopefully. Though I can see rent rising dramatically. Are we going to return to horseback? Because that is romantic, and I know how to ride.

 

While that may be true. We're all responsible for this boat. Even you and I, who were too young to be responsible for the system.

Are dependent on it. So we have to do what we can to help some of the change happen.

You're right of course. We do need more public transportation. And we need more investment in alternatives.

Like I said, I bought a skooter. It's excellent.

But these things would have slipped our attention if things hadn't gotten this bad. And they could have gotten a lot worse if we don't start now, and we had nice cheap oil for another 15 years, suddenly noticing chinas demand for oil is greater than our own, and having a real market crash.

We're responsible for this now.