ban school nativity plays

if it's not albeit a rather mild form of brainwashing, then why not also have a chanukah play (it is also that time of year, chanukah began on the 5th after all). do a yule play, and heck (though i haven't seen it celebrated over here) a kwanzaa play too.

i can't say if i had kids i'd necessarily want them being taught about jesus in school, unless i put them in a relgious school (which i wouldn't).

it could easily be taken out and replace by other 'Christmasy' holiday plays, like Charles Dickens, or a bit of the Grinch or something. there are plenty of kids in schools that don't follow Christianity. If it is a public school then there shouldn't be a specific religion glorified over another, all should either be represented or they should simply not be represented at all.


and before I get leapt on as being an atheist, i'm not. i just don't believe in religion as I was raised in it.

 

Well you know, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt!

 

last year there was an entire thread called "ban christmas"

i'm sure someone could find it

and sure i'd love the ban the commercialization of christmas; and maybe cliff richards carols; but not christmas itself

 

Started by Lithium by any chance? :tongue:

I agree with the commercialization of it, but would have to fight against the banning Cliff music! I love them - cannot have Christmas with a bit of Cliff!

 

Come along now dappy, the hyperbolic language and reference to a Maoist "cultural reform programme" clearly marked that paragraph as of ironic intent. Stop being so dashed humourless! :tongue: Lighten up, it's Christmas!

 

I mean Winterval!

 

Have to say was shocked when I read that! Is that a positive christmas statement! Then I scrolled down and thought "oh, ok"

 

As a society I think we should teach children matters of fact not matters of opinion. We would not dream of bringing children up to be committed to a particular political position, because we are aware they are not capable of understanding the issues and making the decision themelves. Yet we don't flinch when we hear of kids being brought up as a "Catholic child", a "Jewish child" or a "Muslim child". To me it's no different to bringing a child up as a "Marxist child" a "Monetarist child" or a "Nazi child". It's frightening and dangerous.

We should teach open-mindedness, critical thinking, awareness of the world in all its wonderful diversity and complexity, a respect for evidence and knowledge and reason and a tolerance for all viewpoints. If they want to decide to become a Christian or a Muslim or a Marxist or a Capitalist, that should be their decision to make when they are old enough to evaluate the meaning of these things, not foisted upon them by external factors before they're old enough to know any better.

 

Well like I said to children it probably is no more than a bit of fun! I was in a nativity play - as the Angel of Scotland when I was little and it didn't mean much to be except dressing up in a pretty dress and being on stage!

People have their entire lives to make decisions about faith and politics - just because you learn about religion at school doesn't mean it will have a drastic effect on their decision making. If you go to a religious school - then yes it will be emphasied that God does exist, but in a non- religious school it is usually about many religions, not forced onto children, but explained just as history is.

England is for the most part a Christian country, nativity is part of Christmas, children love christmas and having fun, nativity is fun!

 

Obviously my arguments about banning school nativity plays and christmas in general are ironic overstatement, but there is a very serious key concern at their heart. Yes faith schools in particular represent a virulent and dangerous form of ideological indoctrination which it is not unfair to term mental abuse.

At the same time we need to think very hard and very carefully about what ideas are being inculcated into young and impressionable minds throughout the secular education system. What seems like a bit of fun to a child can in fact carry strong ideological content which can profoundly influence later thinking. I think we are often much less free to escape the patterns of thought imposed upon us in early life than we think.

Personally I think the secular christmas celebrations mentioned in that article, the introduction of other myths than christianity and the general decline of the "traditional nativity" are a very good thing. At the same time it's important to give children a thorough grounding in the cultural background which has informed Western civilisation for centuries

 

I'm getting the feeling you wouldn't send your children to a Church of England school?!

 

I certainly wouldn't.

 

I'll lighten up when you leave the kids alone, your just a gringe.

Christmas is a celebration of a soul that offered love and peace, I know I'm supposed to be old and cynical but I still find a hope and a joy in the childish naevity of it, perhaps with a bit more effort we could improve our relationships. Religion isn't about god really but rather about how we treat each other.

 

I think we should ban fun. There's a member on the forums called fun. I'm going to ban him....

 

No I'm not haveing no lightheartedness, using xmas as an excuse just don't cut it in my book

 

Herbert, herbert!

 

do they even have Church of England schools in Wales?

 

Invoke Godwins Law all you want but the Hitler Jugened probably saw most of their indoctrination as a bit of fun, dressing up and showing off to your parents...

I disagree here. England was a christian country but I don't think you really could call it that any more. People worship at the altar of the TV or high street and live by pretty bizarre sets of values. Half the people who'll rabidly and vehemently call themselves christians don't behave or live their lives in a christian fashion at all. Reading some of those vicious comments underneath that article proves this. "I know it's a very un-Christian thing to say, but I would like to get hold of each one of them and shake them till their teeth rattle!" from the woman who went on to tell atheists they had a suprise coming when they die. If it's an un-christian thing to say then why say it?

I'm with lithium for the most part. If you want your kids indoctrinated then send them to a faith school, but it shouldn't be subsidised by me. No skin off my back if you want to raise your kids in a manner that I personally find disagreeable and stifling of certain essential aspects of development but I'll let you raise your kids how you want and you let me do the same, eh? The state school system should be secular. I remember having to sing hymns in assembly at primary school and I didn't even attend a faith school!

This I don't quite get... Nativity = bad. Creationism = OK?????

 

Sorry, I was just referring to religious schools in general.

 

I cant believe i wasnt here for this thread!! But im here now *people groan in background* SHUDDUP *gets baseball bat* im watching you........ :bigear: and listening!


Right first off im gonna assume that im the youngest person here. Which means that i was last to have a proper nativity play, about 4 yrs ago in yr 6 (every year since then ive had to just sit through it and watch some yr 7s walk sit on a chair and hold a live baby. big whoop). I HATED it. It was the most boring thing ever. No wonder kids are so dumb these days (and yes they are, and yes that includes me) if we spend so much time dressing up to say one fucking line on stage and then thats it. who gives a damn?

Those plays were terrible. Ok for the few that got a decent part it mustve been good, but for the other however many there were without a decent part (backend of the donkey is NOT a good part however many scenes youre in) it was terrible. And im not stressing the terrible.Now we didnt do your average christmas thing every year, we did scrooge one yr, farmy thing another, blah blah blah, i dont care.

and yes i remember that too. It sucked so much. I dont want to sing christian songs because IM NOT CHRISTIAN!! And i NEVER will be!!

and you'll never guess why im angry! Because tomorrow i have to sit through an HOUR of Nativity play and guess what we get to sing? HYMNS!! and guess where it is - THE CHURCH!! And i miss an hour of my ART COURSEWORK to listen to them drone on and on and on about christianity and jesus and

My re teacher actually said to me and the rest of the class "YOU CANT LAUGH AT THIS.... THIS (the bible) WAS WRITTEN BY SOME OF THE CLEVEREST PEOPLE AT THE TIME... Youre not christian yet "Because thats all they teach in RE too - christianity, christianity, christianity, christianity. We dont learn about other religons because most of the UK is christian so we must learn about a religon MOST PEOPLE PRACTICE!!



in case you hadnt noticed i HATE nativity plays.
and i read this through and its a crappy post bt i dont care because i have to go to church tomorrow.