ban school nativity plays

Wow try to not get too angry about other faiths!

 

Im not angry about other faiths im angry that theyre shoving christianity down my fucking throat!! And idk about you bt from where i and my friends are standing it certainly feels like it. I would be ok if it wasnt all we're learnt. All we saw. All we're exposed to.

(my mate asked if re was cumpulsory etc and why we're in the church - apparently better lighting.)

 

Well Christmas is once a year so in just over a week it will be done, but wait then it will be Easter - you all have another chance to complain!

I hated some subjects at school - physics for one. I had to learn about it for years but not once have I had to use it since. Fine don't belive in anything Christian but why feel the need to keep going on about it. Please have some consideration.

 

im not going on about it.

I DONT have anything against Christianity. I dont have anything against Jesus.

This is a thread about banning Nativity Plays and i am talking about banning nativity plays. I dont understand whats wrong with that.

 

Never said it was directed to you!

 

Ohhhhhhhhhh Sorry!!

 

I give up! Complain all you like, slag people off I really don't care anymore! Call me stupid, call me ignorant..... so what!

 

She has a point though. I'm certainly not for banning anything, but your experience of it is going to be conditioned by the fact that your beliefs are in line with the dominant culture. Imagine you were forced to celebrate Diwali in school, and it was antithetical to everything you believed in, but it was enforced because the education system was biased towards a religion that wasn't your own - I think you would have legitimate cause to argue against it. I don't think you should see ILuvMusic as complaining for the sake of complaining. That undermines the value of her argument. She has legitimate issues and they stem from the fact we have an established Church which imposes on our education system and affects those of us who do not share those beliefs, those of us who have other beliefs and none....

 

I was not directing that comment to ILuvMusic, I speaking generally.

Also, as I rememeber it and from what I know still happens, schools allow children of different faiths to sit out of anything religious.

At my school we did look into different religions most terms, we had visits to sikh and Hindu temples, visitors and events to celebrate/ look into different faiths. I never complained about it, I didn't make it seem as though they should hide away their faith and not show other people. But then I also haven't seen them be criticised everyday! You can't deny that it much easier to slate Christianity than any other religion? Or maybe we should ban thousands of years of belief just so everyone can can a holiday of presents without anyother meaning?

 

omg .. i had to look that up. :tongue:


i agree with your post though. as much as i don't necessarily agree with banning things, i think that ilovemusic's points are exactly the reason that it should be disallowed. honestly if you dont' abide by the religious sentiments then why are you forced to sit through it?

i remember when i was in primary school there was a kid in class that was a Jehovah's Witness. JW's dont' celebrate birthdays, yet the class celebrated people's birthdays. So, when it came time for a birthday celebration, he was allowed to leave and go to the library or something while the class had the celebration for someone's birthday.

Chelle, I can understand your frustration that so many people don't believe in the same articles of faith that you do; but I think if you expect people to understand your faith and your religion and for people to have consideration towards your beliefs that you need to extend that consideration to people who don't share your beliefs or have another faith. Last time I checked Christmas was a pagan holiday that was adopted by Christianity, it wasn't something that Christians came up with. In fact, it's been proven that the man that was Jesus Christ was born in about April, and not around December at all. So to get all upset because people don't see Christmas as a Christian holiday is a bit silly. I can understand your beliefs and respect that it is how you choose to celebrate the holiday, just as that is how my parents and siblings celebrate the holiday. However you have to realize that there are many people who are of another faith or who might be atheist or agnostic that celebrate the holiday but don't abide with the religious overtones that have been adopted into it all. And I'm not trying to have a go at you. I do understand where you are coming from, and I hope you realize I'm not trying to make things harder on you; but I do see a bit of a double-standard in what you have said as you want people to have consideration for your religion but it doesn't seem you are willing to give the same consideration for people that are say Hindu or whatever else. :hug:

As I said before, I still feel if they have Nativity plays then they should teach the precepts of other religions as well in schools. And, if someone is of another religion, such as Iluvmusic, they shouldn't be forced to have to sit through and listen to the Nativity story if it's not what they believe in.
Plain and simple.

 

I think the reason it is easier to slate Christianity is because it is one of the most vocal religions on the planet. There are Christian tv programs/channels, Christian music, people knocking on your door trying to evangelize to you, and general threats of fire and brimstone everywhere.

Granted it is worse in the States than here, trust me on that one.

And maybe the world would look at Christianity a bit differently if it weren't for the way Americans have beat people up with the Bible for generations.

I've never heard of a Hindu missionary, or a Buddhist missionary; but there are thousands of Catholic and Christian missionaries (as well as Jehovah Witness and Mormons -but they consider themselves to be Christians as well). I don't think any other religion goes around and evangelizes to people nearly as much as Christianity does. And this isn't directed at you personally, I'm not saying you do it yourself; just the religion in general.

As far as your second point, I answered that one, before I read your comment in the post above. Again Christmas was a Pagan holiday long before Christians decided to make it about Jesus.


*edit*

oh and it seemed to me too that you were directing your comments towards Iluvmusic, especially the "don't get so upset about other faiths" comment.

 

I find that rather unfair to be honest! I have not said anything towards other faiths nor have I said that people should treat Christmas as a Christian holiday. I don't mind people believing in a different or even no religion, what I mind is being treated as wrong and inferior. Perhaps the latter has come from other threads more than in this forum, however it seems to be heading the same way.

I live my life, you live yours. It can appear that non christians can say whatever they want about religion, yet if a christian says something to defend their faith it is looked down on and used to fuel the fire!

I don't want to get into a religious debate right now - this week has been battering enough. So if standing up for my beliefs have offended I apologise.

 

ILuvMusic - if I upset or offended you I'm sorry but i was reacting to being upset and offended myself.

 

The reason why christianity is being focused on is because it is the faith hegemony in the UK, it is our "state religion", and anyone who has attended school in the UK will have been brought up largely in the christian tradition whether they like it or not. I was involved in traditional nativity plays (along with many other christian religious rituals and ceremonies) throughout my childhood, and now I see my young nephews going through the same thing twenty years later. It is entirely to be expected that any discussion of the role of faith in education in the UK will focus on christianity; it's something we're all intimately involved with whether we subscribe to its dogmas or not. It's an important matter of public policy as well as, for many of us, personal experience, and as such is necessarily open to discussion and criticism.

The issues are equally relevant to the indoctrination of children into any faith - but since christianity is my culture, as much as it is yours, this is the one we are, quite naturally, discussing!

 

Thanks for your post Iluvmusic, it's interesting to get another nonchristian perspective on the experience of being brought up within what to most is an unconscious and invisible set of hegemonic doctrines. I think you highlight the fact that RE lessons, while they try to be inclusive and to discuss other faiths, are still very largely christian biased. I think the study of religion should have no place in schools unless it is truly 'comparative' religion - that is, a study of the history, culture and literature of these traditions, with equal time given to all the major faiths, as well as discussion of the issue of faith itself. Your experience shows that we are still a long way from that, and are still involved in promulgating a particular set of beliefs, which is not what education should be.

Heh, I remember being chuffed one year when I was appointed "stage manager" in the school nativity, until I realised it was just a way of getting me out of the way and making sure I never got anywhere near the stage They probably thought I would try to stage some sort of youthful protest against the brainwashing of the faith hegemony

 

Wow, that's harsh. Friends of mine who went to the local catholic state school used to relay similar tales. At my school though RE was one of my favourite lessons because we learnt about many cultures & traditions and the teacher was great and encouraged us to approach things respectfully (he was a bit of a hippy though ). It is a bit dark what your teacher said- not a very objective opinion if teaching a class in a state school and imagine the 'moral' outrage had they belonged to a different faith..

I would have thought the christian thing to have done would have been to not react?

 

Oh yes, sorry please continue to insult, I will just let it pass me by! The Christian thing to do is stand up for what you believe. You don't know me, please don't try and judge me.

 

Just an observation, not an insult but it is easy to not enter into debate by claiming everything you may not want to hear is an insult. Even if you took it as one, rise above the pathetic insults of the unfaithful and turn the other cheek surely? Or do you doubt your faith?

I judge who I want. I made myself god, it's my right and as ludicrous as you may think it, I'm correct. End of story. Only the truly pious can speak on such matters. My judgement is eternal. All those who've believed in gods other than me are in for one heck of a horrible shock when they die! However, I'll be in tears of laughter all the way to the spaceships! This is the word of the lord. Criticise my opinion and I'll take it as a personal attack.

 

Oh so clever!

 

Nativity plays hardly had a big effect on me....once you are more educated then you can make up your own mind. As for me I enjoyed dressing up as one of the three kings

As for Christmas, I dont think of it as Christian at all, but a time for giving and sharing and drinking and getting presents, and seeing family members you havnt seen in a long time.

Think about, how many people are actually celebrating the birth of christ... certainly not the majority, but I think its a fun time of the year that I look forward too.