Beginning veg gardening for cheapos?

That all sounds fantastic. I can't tell you how happy I am for you. I would give anything to see the look on your face when those seeds sprout. The 9-12-12 will be just fine.

Peace,
poor_old_dad

WOW!! I can make a short reply!!!

 

Okay, trying now to figure out how many tomatoes I should start... Cukes and zucchini, too. For the tomatoes I have 3 varieties (Rutgers, Stupice, and Peacevine) and I'm not sure how many of these plants I can fit in a four ft. block. If I don't hear back from you in the next hour or so I'll start a dozen or so of each, to be on the safe side. I guess I'll do the same for the cucumber and Zucchini... I'll read up a little and see if I can find any info.

 

Sorry, didn't see this earlier....

Yeah, I forgot about the layout for those. A lot will depend on how you support them (tomatoes, cucs & zucs). If you stake the tomatoes and make some sort of fence for the cucs & zucs, the layouts below will work. These are close and aggressive plantings. I'd suggest transplanting only 2 or 3 of the Peacevine and 1/2 & 1/2 of the remaining spots for the Stupice & Rutgers.
On the layouts, where it says "plants go here", you'll want 3 or 4 plants in each of the spots... so that'd be 12 to 16 each of the cucs & zucs - that'll be a lot!

But start as many as you can, they make great barter goods.

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Groovy, thank you for that! You say I'll have room there for 12-16 each of the zucs and cucs in the ground? That will be a lot, I hope I have enough peat-pot space for them!

I just finished planting my first tray of seeds - all sweet peppers (banana, plus a couple bell varieties I bought). Now I'm watering them and I'm concerned about over-watering. For this first one, should I go ahead and water until the soil seems all the way saturated? And then keep giving it just a little more at a time when it starts to get dry on top? It seems to want to just sit on top of the jiffy mix for a minute, and then when it soaks in I can barely tell from the top that it was watered at all. :& Seems like a pretty basic question, after all we've talked about. But I want to make sure I get it all right from here!

 

Here's a better idea for squares 4 & 9. Each transplant will be about one foot from the others.

If you have the pots in water tight trays, put an inch or so in the tray. When/if the water is all soaked up... add more water & keep doing that until no more is soaked up.

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Am I missing something from that last post? I'm not quite sure what you were saying... (I did just wake up 5 minutes ago, so that could have something to do with it too!)

Just wanted to update you on my progress - Yesterday I sectioned off the rest of the area where my beds will be. I'd dug all but the last couple feet of the west bed, and not yet started on the other. And I didn't have a tape measure until a couple days ago, so I was just using a piece of measured string and my eyeballs. Now that I have it all blocked out at the corners I see that I got a little narrower as I went, so I need to go back and fix it when I finish digging. Yesterday afternoon we got the fencing put up around the whole garden area. It's two feet high, plenty to keep the dogs out if they know they're not supposed to go in.

After turning and looking at my compost the other day I determined that it really isn't decomposed enough yet to mix with the soil. I bought some organic humus to mix in, instead (hopefully that will do almost the same job - right now it seems like the soil's too hard and chunky, so softening it up a little will be good). Between it and the fertilizer I figure I'll be good. I'm not quite sure how I should measure/weigh out the fertilizer, but I'm sure I'll come up with something.

At the end of the day when the sun was going down we built a fire in the pit at the other back corner of the yard, moved and stacked what wood we couldn't get to burning into a pile out of the way in the back, and relaxed and admired our work.

So, today... first thing I need to do is mow the whole lawn. I got part of it a few days ago, but there was too much wood piled throughout to get the whole thing. After I've done that I'll finish digging the first bed, fertilize it and mix the humus in, so that I can section off the first block and plant the peas. Or would I be better off only mixing/fertilizing that section today, so that it's "fresher" when I plant/transplant the other stuff later? Either way, I hope to get the peas planted today.

This is so neat, it's starting to look like a garden! I'm really loving my whole yard now, too. I've had some more ideas for prettying it up as time goes by... I got a cheapo wildflower mix the other day, and I'll till up some of the ground by the chain-link fence line (on the east side of the yard) to lay it out. After some of the seeds I've got going have finished, I'll plant more marigolds and zinnias (although, maybe not zinnias, since I've heard they don't do transplants too well...) and put the marigolds in the garden. And remember I told you about those two big dead ugly trees? Well, we figured out pretty well that they're dead due to bugs eating them. The electric company came through a few weeks ago to trim the trees out front of our house and our whole neighborhood, and seeing those hollowed-out and chewed-through cross sections didn't leave a doubt. Anyway, we're going to have the landlord cut them down and then I'm going to fill the trunks with soil and use them for flower pots.

Oh goodness, I'm so excited now from writing all this out as I wake up... I should go get to work!

 

Let me try that again...

 

Sorry about that, sometimes I have trouble getting attachments to attach.

Absolutly right thing to do. And yes, with the humus & fertilizer you'll be in good shape...

Go ahead and mix in the the humus & fertilizer as soon as you can, it's a little better to allow it to sort of disperse within the soil before planting & like you said get the peas in the ground, they'll look real good when they come up...

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Great! I'm glad I did right with the humus.

Still haven't gotten the peas, lettuce, or radish in the ground. Yesterday was more complicated than I expected. And today, I unfortunately have to get a few other things done for the work/business side of things.

Tomorrow I hope to finally finish digging the first bed, prepare it with fertilizer/humus, section it off, and plant the peas and first of the lettuce and radish. After that I want to get the other bed dug as soon as possible so I can get the potatoes in the ground.

BTW, we did get back to the store, at least. I bought seed potatoes (yukon gold), corn (I actually bought two varieties of sweet corn, but now that I look at the packets and think about it, I can't plant both kinds, can I? It says "isolate from other corn" and since it needs to pollinate, I guess that would make sense...), some more herbs, which I won't start in pots until I've transplanted the first of the other stuff, some garlic which will go in a couple of those cinder (or stone or something) boxes that I found in the yard, and onion, which I know I don't have room for now. But I was hoping that with my second bunch of veg for fall I could do tomatoes again, and potatoes hopefully, and onion and garlic (since I should be able to store all three for a chunk of fall/winter)

Lots of work to do. I'd better get to it if I can have tomorrow to get out back again!

 

Update... I have the peas, and the first of the lettuce and radish planted. Didn't have *quite* enough peas to cover what ground I had for them, so I might try and pick up more tomorrow or the next day and plant the rest.

I haven't gotten but the first couple feet of the second row, yet. But I hope to get it done in the coming week and start the potatoes. The planting interval for them (confirmed by my agent) is "March", and I want to get em in the ground asap. According to what I've read, I just need to cut the seed taters up with 1-2 "eyes" on each piece (eyes bing indents on the skin?) and let them sit out and get calloused for a couple days, before planting them... Sound right?

And, the seedlings are sprouting! The cucumber popped up first, and almost every one of them is looking big and strong now. The zucchini are beginning to do the same. One variety of tomato (rutgers) is mostly sprouted, but the others are a little behind. The few marigolds I planted in spare spots are looking good, too. None of the peppers seem to be doing anything yet, but I think they're supposed to be a little longer to germinate than the rest (I hope!). It's so exciting to see them all there, I can barely resist the urge to go lift the lids and look at them constantly.

 

Fantastic.

Yes, that's right on the potatoes.

And my Stupice & Peacevine tomatoes are a little slow too. They were ones I had to re-order this year, hopefully they're Ok. My earliest (and riskiest) tomatoes, Prairie Fire & Oregon Spring (both on http://www.tomatogrowers.com/early2.htm ) are already starting to bloom!! Stupice is on the same web page, but I grow them a little later, as a "main crop" tomato.

When those seeds start sprouting is about the most exciting time of the year.

Keep up the good work.

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Pretty much most of the seedlings have popped up now... The hot peppers are still coming along slowly though. The cucumber - almost every one sprouted and looks healthy. But only about half the zucchini did. Both of those have gotten so big I'm starting to worry - the stems are pretty much falling over! But hopefully that will be remedied quickly, as there seems to be more leaf development now.

About the potatoes - I can't seem to find any info on planting patterns for wide rows. The bag of seed recommended putting the chunks 18" apart... Does that mean I could only fit 4-5 seed chunks per 4x4' area? I cut up "a bunch" of eyes today to be on the safe side, and plan on planting them in 2 days or so... So any additional info you could offer would be appreciated!

 

Aren't seedlings beautiful ?

I was just checking your weather: http://www.srh.noaa.gov/forecast/MapClick.php?CityName=Lebanon&state=TN&site=OHX
and I think you can start leaving your seedlings outside... day and night. When more leaves get on the seedlings the falling over will probably get worse!!! What is perhaps happening is they are getting "leggy", meaning they are getting taller faster than the stems are getting fatter and stronger. This can happen when they are reaching for sunlight. No matter what, they & your weather are ready to for then to start living outside. In fact, it'll real soon be time to stick them into the ground!!!

Look at this: http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/daily/USTN0283?climoMonth=3
It'll give you your average highs, lows & records, etc. You'll see that your average lows are getting higher.

It's a slight gamble to rush them into the ground, they may get gotten by a cold spell, but if they are getting to the point where they are falling over it may be your best shot. Hedge you bets & start a few more seeds just in case... they can always be used to fill in gaps left by any that don't survive transplanting. As always, I suggest you call your county agent & see what he or she says too.

As to the potatoes, use the same layout as for the tomatoes.

I'm trying to find some good examples of trellises and supports for cucs, zucs, & tomatoes. More later or tomorrow...

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Right on... those tater chunks should be ready to get in the ground tomorrow. that part of the bed is dug - I just hope it'll be loose enough to allow for growth. (should I try and sift out the grass and roots as much as I can for this portion of the row? It seems like the taters will require more room and loose soil for root growth than most other things, for obvious reasons...) In any case, I was planning on using a hoe to cut a sort of trench in the bed, so that I can bury the seed a few inches deep and have more dirt to mound up around it when the time comes.

In another week or two I'll be planting the corn seed - was I right about planting only one variety for both beds?

Seedlings are all looking good, except the hot peppers Most of those didn't even sprout, and the few that have look pretty pathetic. I guess I'll try again, and if all else fails I'll buy a few plants when I'm getting to transplant time (which I figure is still a good 5-6 weeks or so away)

The first radish, lettuce, and snap pea babies are definitely poking up now! They definitely make me happy, and motivate me to work hard while I'm out there!

Those baby zuc's are still falling over pretty bad. I moved all the seedlings out yesterday morning like you said - they're on the roof of the aluminum shed, where they'll get lots of sun without danger of being trampled by playing dogs. There's definitely more leaf growth now, and like you warned, they are getting even "leanier". Is there anything I can do for them? Will they be all right anyway? I thought about sticking something in the dirt to support the stems, but I don't want to hurt the roots. They still seem like they're growing and healthy, so maybe as long as I keep them watered and don't let them tangle with each other, we'll be okay?

I'll go out and do more out back tonight once it cools off a little - I'm trying to concentrate most of my time out there in the first and last couple hours of light in the day.

 

Getting any roots bigger than your little finger, plus any rocks or anything else out is exactly the right thing to do, and you're totally right on about the loose soil. What you said about the trench is also the exact best thing to do. Go in about 6 inches from each side, make a trench parallel with the side, then another trench half way between the two (should be the middle). The trenchs should be about 6 inches deep. Put the chunks about 14 to 18 inches apart in the trenchs. Barely cover them, as the plants sprout, pull more dirt over them, and continue until you're back to level with the rest of the ground or maybe even a little higher.

The one variety in both beds - yes totally right, in fact, come to think of it, plant in the path too (see idea below).

Hot peppers always seem to take forever to sprout (BTW: parsley actually does take forever... well really 6 to 8 WEEKS!!) Start more but don't give up on what's planted. Do you need more seeds? I've (finally) gotten my sage seeds & am going to send you some & can include more pepper seeds if you need them (have LOTS of pepper seeds).

Yeah, tough call here. Remember they're vines. Something I've done and you can try on a couple, try lying them down. And you can support them (or others) and there is a risk of root damage, but if they fall over and get a "kink" in the stem - they're dead. So it's almost always always worth the risk.... use pipe cleaners... stick them away from the stem & them bend around for the supporting.

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

I think I'm missing an attachment on that last post? I think I get what you're saying though - I can plant the corn as a solid row, making the garden beds into a "U" shape. I'll still be able to get at all the corn from every side, but I'll only be able to access the inside of the other rows from the south end opening. Is this right?

Great idea on the pipe cleaners - I never would have thought of that! Ian's going to pick some up for me @ work today. I'm not too worried about the stems breaking, though. They seem pretty tough, they're just sort of growing sideways now. I'm mostly worried that they'd get tangled now.

I glanced through my seeds, and I *think* I have enough of the 4 varieties of hot peppers. I'll try and start some more this week.

How I've been digging, I've gotten all the big roots and rocks out. But what I'm more worried about (especially with the potatoes) is the layer of grass and weeds and their roots. You said this stuff will improve the tilth, and I think I understand that. Sort of like giving a more solid medium for new roots to grab on to and make them safer from wind, etc.? But preparing the (freshly dug) bed, it seems like that layer makes for a pretty solid area of the soil. These tiny little stringy roots are so thick, I don't know how well potatoes will grow with them. And I've tried removing some of it, but it's virtually impossible without getting rid of half my dirt.

 

New prob (kinda) - I was just out there trying to level and prepare the bed for the taters... Still not sure how I should handle all those roots!

I'm almost finished digging this row - I've double-dug the first 12 ft, and done the first part of the dig in the next few feet (to pile that dirt on the last part, if that makes any sense). I should be able to finish the row off in a morning in the next few days. All this time, I've been pulling out long thick roots like you said, along with whatever rocks I find. All the "rocks" I've come across though, have been chunks of concrete. There've been some pretty big ones (I'm getting more and more certain that this place was built on some kind of dump! Not too worried about that aspect of it, though, since the soil test was so good and everything seems to grow well...) But these last few feet, I'm coming across more and more *little* chunks of concrete and rock. I'm doing my best to pull them out, but there's a whole lot of them and it doesn't seem like I can get nearly all! They're pretty small, mostly around nickel-sized in diameter. Do you think that'll be a problem?

 

Been reading through all the posts here.

Little chunks of rock and concrete probably won't be a problem. You could sift them out with a square of hardware cloth nailed to some 2X4's. I've done that in some gardens I used to maintain. Sifted out all kinds of interesting "relics". Sounds like you just have a lot of concrete so that's good. At one garden I was sifting out glass and metal along with concrete pieces.

The fewer rocks in your potato garden the better but you don't want to get rid of all the little rocks because they provide a long-term source of minerals to the soil.

 

Yeah, I don't know where the attachment went, but the "U" shape is what I was getting at.

As far as the grass & roots, think of it as in ground composting. Once it warms up, etc., the grass & roots will break down & the potatoes will do fine.

I agree with Mr. J. Pine: Don't sweat the small stuff, the little peices of concrete aren't going to do much, if any, harm. You said it yourself, you've done your best to get the chunks out. Start this year preparing to next year grow your potatoes in a pile of leaves & grass clipings piled on the ground and enclosed by a some of that 2 foot tall chicken wire. Yeah, start thinking about next year's garden.... I've found that, even this early in the year, thinking about next year's garden gives me a good & happy feeling I can't describe.

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Just wanted to update you on my progress...

I hurt my back last week, so everything's been slowed down considerably. I did finally manage to get the taters in the ground the other day, though. Not sure how I'll manage digging the rest of the way, but I'll have to do it in the next week or two, because I want to get the corn planted! The seedlings are all looking good still, I can't believe how fast the peas, radish and lettuce are all popping up! I'll be eating salad from the garden in a couple weeks, eh?! I'm not sure about the hot peppers... I planted more seeds and they're showing no sign of germination yet.

I have been thinking a lot about next year's garden, (and even more about next *season*, I want to arrange room for onion and garlic...) and really looking forward to it. I know it'll still be a lot of work - but I'll at least have the basics already taken care of next time around. I won't have to double-dig the whole thing from scratch, etc. And problems like weeds and grass popping up between veggies probably won't be as bad (seems I'm seeing a *lot* of grass!)

I did think of one more neat idea... I've been thinking and thinking back to my cat problem we discussed before. Instead of trying to keep them from eating the plants, since nothing seems to work, I'm going the other way with it - I'm gonna go get a decent-sized pot to put on my kitchen floor near a window and plant a variety of grass in it! I figure, since that's what they really seem to want to be eating anyway, and it's the taste they want and like, that having it there should (hopefully) deter them from eating my houseplants. And grass can look and smell nice, and recovers well from being abused, cut and chewed.