Being a christian and gay

@mothman

The whole bible is up for debate and the homosexuality issue is one of the most debated topics in recent entymology because of it's relevance to modern christians
I have a friend whose dad is quite high up in the anglican church and he studies and writes about this issue a lot. because of all the difficulties in interpretation and translation of the old testament nothring is 100%
the christian bible isn't like the muslim one where you can read it as it was written, the original texts are in dead languages and lots of bits are missing.
there is also the very well documented fact that a lot of the rules in the oldest books like deutronomy and leviticus are pretty much impossible to follow in the modern world (and sometimes seem to contradict each other)

 

so because the world has changed some of the rules don't apply to christians anymore?? :frown:

in that case they need to wake up

it's 2011 and being gay is not a crime.

 

The impression I got from your writing is not only having sex with the same gender is wrong, but being homosexual is wrong, period. Which isn't true, since a lot of gay people cannot help their orientation.

Guys can still have romantic relationships with other guys, and women can have romantic relationships with other women. And it won't be a sin if it's out of actual love, and not lust. The sexual activity is the sin, but the relationship itself isn't.

So that's why I wrote my response.

 

First of all, entymology is the study of insects. Secondly, based on your post you have not properly interperted what I have posted and may want to read over.

Thirdly, I know all about the old rules being hard to follow, we gentiles got a very simplified and dumbed down version of judaism. They knew we could not follow all of those rules. You're not telling me anything new. You also won't convince me that any translation errors or omitted rules have somehow left out a verse where God says "nevermind what I said before, I don't have a problem with homosexuality". I'm not going to follow you down that dark alley.

Every point I've made is based on the bible we have available today. I wish someone would realize I am only cutting through the crap of people saying "christians say this" or "God says that" when much of it is their own personal feeling on the topic and not anything from the bible.

It's like a bunch of Star Wars nerds talking about the characters and making comments like I'm pretty sure Yoda thought it was okay to go darkside for a little while and come back. It goes against what we know and is certainly not cannon.

 

Well, then you are way off in your interpretation of what I wrote. I have never given my personal opinion of gay relationships in any of these posts. I tried real hard to make it known that I am simply stating what the bible says God's thoughts are on the subject.

I covered that gay people can not help their orientation and I agree with that. You are not following me if you feel you need to make the same arguement that I am. You folks are somehow backing me into the position of being anti gay...Well screw that, I'm not so chill with that crap please and pay attention to what I'm saying.

I'm just pointing out that people are making stuff up and acting like its in the bible. You're post here is an example.

You said: "Guys can still have romantic relationships with other guys, and women can have romantic relationships with other women. And it won't be a sin if it's out of actual love, and not lust. The sexual activity is the sin, but the relationship itself isn't."

Dude, you made that up!!! It's the way you see things. I'm not opposed to it either...but its not even close to being biblical. That is all I'm saying in this thread.

 

But there are so many different kinds of Christians, you get ones like the Amish where staying in the old days is fundamental to their beliefs and ones who only believe what in the New Testament etc etc

One of the main reasons I can't follow Christianity is pretty much what you said how the book is from such a different time that a lot of it seems unrealistic for modern life, but I don't think that it is impossible to reconcile the two

 

haha i meant epistomology, my bad...

The point that I was trying to make was that even though the Bible itself does say very clearly that homosexuality is wrong, Christianity rarely follows the Bible absolutely

I respect your position and I can understand why you are annoyed (or come across as annoyed) about people posting up their interpretations of the Bible as if it were true, but I think that Christianity does that as well, except for a few minor sects, even the most die-hard Christians seem to have a post Enlightenment view of Christianity which would be incredibly sinful to a Medieval Christian.

And I do wonder about Yoda myself after the last two films since he was so attuned to the force and yet allowed the Jedi order to be destroyed from within by the Sith. He knew the prophecy about the rise of the Sith precluding the force being brought into balance so I wonder if he didn't allow the wars and everything even though he could have defeated the Sith

 

But there's nothing in the Bible against it. Not allowing that would make it extra-Biblical.

 

Let me start this by saying that I am bi. I am Christian. I will beat the shit out of homophobes.
Biblically speaking (at least in the old testament) homosexuality is wrong. However the bible also says that you can't be separated from the love of God. So yes, you can be gay and Christian, but it will lead to issues in your faith.

 

Well, the Old Testament also speaks about a bunch of other things, like animals sacrifices and not eating pork, etc.

The New Testament only speaks against lust, and sexual acts outside marriage, both heterosexual and homosexual.

And yes, you can't be separated from the love of God once you accept and follow Him.

 

Look all he really needs to do is have some hot boy on boy on boy on boy on boy action and he wont feel bad at all a little sore maybe but that's about it

 

For you to stand there and say there is nothing in the bible against after I have cited items in the bible specifically against it, is madness.

Animal sacrifice was the old testament method of attonement for one's sins. Jesus was the final sacrifice for all sins making animal scarifice obsolete, his death covered all sin. God didn't stop wanting some form of sacrifice for our sins, he sent his sone to be that sacrifice. Now that it is done, all we need do is confess we are sinners and accept him as our saviour(sacrifice) to be forgiven and our sins are washed away. Make no mistake though, the bible stresses that blood was shed for us.

You are not acknowledging what I have pointed out for you. God's attitude is still the same on these issues in the new testament as well as the old, the only difference is that all is forgiven because of Jesus. You can say extra all you like but this is not so. I have quoted specific verses and explained my arguement only to have you come back and repeat that there is "nothing" in the bible referencing it and therefore I'm somehow adding to it.

In addition I never said anything about not allowing it. I don't know why you can't grasp my point. Let me spell it out for you.

My stance is the christian god of the modern bible does not approve of homosexuality. It does not matter if both parties are in love because homosexual lust and homosexual love have one thing on common that god does not approve of...the homosexual part. You are holding onto a false hope that the love/lust difference will somehow make God okay with it. Matter of fact I'm gonna take a page out of your book and say that your ideal is not in the bible so therefore you are adding to it. This is not biblical and yes what I am saying is in the bible and already in my posts so I won't list it again.

The original question in this thread was "can you be gay and christian?", my answer was yes. Read it! The problem here is that I pointed out that God doesn't approve of it, just like any other sin but forgives it. Just because I am telling you what the bible says doesn't mean I'm against gay relationships on any level. The question was NOT can you be gay and okay with Mothman? By the way the answer is yes.

If I am showing a level of annoyance it's because I have to repeat myself and a few of you are continuing to respond as though I'm saying something else.

 

Why would you want to be part of something that hates you for who you are?

 

There are other things which Christians hate. Mental illness. I know a pastor who is MD and he is very much shunned which makes him very depressed. The real issue being that the religion (all all religions) are supposed to fix all issues. That they do not is one reason religion itself is synonymous with ignorance. To ignore is to be ignorant. If God is a god of love then love of same sex is like unto God. If God is not a god of love then who needs her?

 

okay, sorry. I didn't notice this was sanctuary. Perhaps I shouldn't have called God a twat.

And for the record I wasn't calling the Christian God a twat, I was calling some of the variations of the Christian God a twat. Everyone has a different image of what God is, and I think some people turn God into something that reflects the worst of human nature. Which isn't actually God at all, because God would be above that.

See, this is what I don't understand. I'll put it in polite terms this time, but my sentiments are the same. Why would you believe in a God that dangles the cheese but doesn't allow the mouse to have the cheese? Don't you think God would be above that kind of sadistic behavior?

Why would God create gay people if they were only allowed to hold hands and have innocent, "romantic" relations.

And really, who has romantic relationships without sex?

 

it's so wrong, but it feels so right....

 

that's adam and eve as well though isn't it? god created flawed creatures and put us in a paradise with a self destruct button

the only unbelievable thing about the Bible for me is that people take it literally

 

What's the point if you just pick and choose the bits you like? Oh that's in the old testament it doesn't really count.

 

That thought crossed my mind too. The entire Christian religion is based on God dangling a piece of cheese, or in this case an apple.

 

i don't think that the story is stupid or ridiculous at all, i don't think there is any contradiction in the idea of god making life totally unfair. i don't think that god made any mistakes, i don't think that the pain in the world is a mistake, i think the absurdity is the whole point of existence. i think that man created god and that god created man and the absurdity is the whole point of it all. the whole horrible mess is completely deliberate and it could only be invented by a perfect being because if a human made it up then it wouldn't be so beyond our comprehension. i don't know what we mean when we say god but i think it has always been an irrelevant concept and that is why it works. you think that intelligent humans today have a problem with faith, imagine in the old days when your friends just died because of nothing more than the stupidity of people, and you have to believe that that is god

according to the story (which is bollocks) god sent a person (who was made up) to earth and humans killed him. it's all part of the beautiful absurdity,