Bible Questions? III

In the beginning of this thread olderwaterbrother said"people may have questions about what the Bible says".Now it seems everyone is answering with either "I think",or giving their own interpetation of a certian scripture.Though interesting this is sounding a lot like psychobabble and, really has no foundation when the purpose of this thread is considered.The purpose of this thread, to my understanding, is "what does the Bible say". It would seem to me that once the Bible has spoken on a subject then there would be no question as to the correct meaning,when the purpose of this thread is considered.When the Bible stopped speaking in this thread the posters,apparently,lost focus and the thread has stopped,or so it seems.

 

Did you have a bible question tanasi. If the question is any other than what does it say in Genesis 1:1, you are going to be dealing with levels of interpretation. Blessed are the poor in spirit is pretty much psycho babble, speaking of a degree of awareness, or an attitude, or does it mean that spirits that manage to pay their rent are not blessed?
There is a way of looking at the bible that comforts belief, and there is a way of looking at the bible that challenges faith or puts it to work.
Since the bible does not in fact speak, it requires the voice of the reader to be heard. Readers have differing comprehension levels based on many factors, not the least of which is peer pressure or cultural practice.

 

I'm sorry if this has already been dealt with in this thread, but the thread is so long I haven't been able to read it all. If it is somewhere in the thread, please point me in that direction. I have discussed the Bible with alot of Christians throughout my life, and one thing that all Christians tell me is that the Bible is perfect and it has all the answers if you just look in the right place. Well, if the Bible is so all knowing -Why does it not have any reference to pedophilia? It seems like a pretty simple question to me.

PAX

 

It is mentioned under the heading of licentiousness.

li·cen·tious [lī sénshəss]
adj
sexually immoral: pursuing desires aggressively and selfishly, unchecked by morality, especially in sexual matters
mark 7;20-23

 

Mark 7:20-23 (New International Version)


Mark 7:20-23 (New International Version)
20He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "

okay- so where does it mention pedophilia? Sexual immorality is a catch-all. I can't quote the passages but there are references to beastiality, masturbation, homosexuality and even sex with a woman whilst she is menstruating. Where is the reference to pedophilia?

PAX

 

Pedophilia is a modern clinical term, just as homosexual is a modern term.

There is no direct mention in the Bible about pedophilia but that does not mean that this is something that we cannot address with timeless principles that come out of Scripture. One concept that we could look to is the sin of "fornication" and this word has the same idea in both the Hebrew and the Greek. The Greek word is "porneia" and we get the English word "porno" from this word and one can recognize that it is the basis for the word "pornography." The word in Scripture refers to any illicit sexual activity and therefore this would include the abhorrent acts of a pedophile. Fornication is something that is present on the lists of the "lusts of the flesh" (Galatians 5:16-21) and also on the list of the evil things that come out of the heart of man apart from God (Mark 7:21-23).

Pedophiles are people who fall under the characteristic of one "without natural affection." (Romans 1:31; 2 Timothy 3:2). The phrase "without natural affection" is translated from one Greek word and it means inhuman, unloving and unsociable or one who acts in ways that are against the social norm. This would certainly describe a pedophile.

In addition, there is a principle that can be taken from Jesus' words about children. Jesus used a child to teach His disciples that child like faith is what is necessary for entrance into the kingdom of heaven and that the Father has concern for all of His "little ones" (Matthew 18:1-14). Although the faith as of a child is the context of the following verse, it is not a stretch to use it as a basis for a principle about the treatment of children. "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in Me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea" (Matthew 18:10, King James Version). The word "offend" in the Greek has the idea of causing one to stumble, to put a stumbling block or impediment in the way, upon which another may trip and fall, to entice to sin, to cause a person to begin to distrust and desert one whom he ought to trust and obey, to cause to fall away, to cause one displeasure at a thing, or to make indignant.

These definitions of the word "offend" can easily be applied to the actions of a practicing pedophile. The fact that an offence against a child is seen as something that is so serious also lends weight to this application. Of course this principle can be applied to a wide range of child abusive actions and it seems to really make the case against any one who would bring harm to a child.

 

The Bible speaks to each christian individually, the same verse that may comfort the broken spirit of one may indeed enlighten the perspective of another.There is no way to understand scripture intellectually,we are his children and each of us are unique, as are the answers found in the Bible.
I believe you are one of the most intelligent posters on these boards,but long after you and I shuffle off this mortal coil the Bible will continue to comfort the children of God ,individually.

 

I absolutely agree about the inspiration to be found in the bible. In the mean time people are suffering. I used to be the most devout church goer and tenacious believer in things I did not comprehend. None of that brought me any peace but instead, continuous and unrelenting arbitration, a thousand different voices saying a thousand different things. It seems I had learned a great deal about the varieties and challenges of sin and not much at all about the healing dynamic of forgiveness, learning the meaning of the phrase, I desire mercy not sacrifice. This is a direct instruction to us, go and learn the meaning.

 

No where in the Bible does it say having sex with a child is a sin. Because unfortunately, back when the Bible was written, getting married and having sex with a 10 yr old child was an acceptable practice. So our sense of morality has changed drastically from those times. So the Bible is not perfect. It is man's and not God's intrepretation of what is right and what is wrong? You can claim that God's spirituality was the inspiration for the writings in the Bible, but I really don't believe it was. The Bible was just an interpretation of what was right and wrong at that point in time. Times have changed. Our interpretation of what is right and wrong has changed as well. So, to truly believe in the "Bible as gospel"
[pardon the pun] does not hold water in this day and age: things have changed. For Christians to push the Bible's agenda on people in this day and age just isn't right. The morality of 2000 years ago just doesn't apply in this day and age: Don't get me wrong- I believe that there is a lot of good in the Bible: but it's not all perfect. To quote Ghandi " Jesus was a person I admired, it's just Christians that I don't like."

PAX

 

Couldn't agree more.

My description would be "complete", complete in addressing all manner of human concern.

Not only mans interpretation, but in many instances the interpretations of a particular society.
Also included however are archetypal symbolism delineating essential physical nature. The causes of phenomena.
Truly I agree that the bible is open to interpretation, and it is meant to be interpreted in the face of life experience.

 

II Timothy 3: ---
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

II Peter 1: ---
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

Could you sharpen for us the aspect that you have emphasized and toward what context. Are all scriptural words considered prophecy? Does prophecy come in new time, are there Holy men of God in the world?

 

Pax, I'm not a Christian, nor do I profess to practice the teachings in the book used by Christians, but I do not really understand what you are talking about. Where in the Bible does it say that having sex with a child is neither a sin nor not a sin? Matter of fact, where in the Bible does it give mention to performing sexually (knowing or having known) with children?

If I remember anything about the Bible it is that the one called Jesus said he did not come to destroy the teachings of the the old ones but to fulfill them. So it seems that the old ways are only for reference and education, as well as a running record of the way things were back then. Seems I also recall that the practitioners of the one called Jesus are not the same as the Jews in that they do not adhere to the practices of the old ways but the new ways, the teachings as they are designed and laid out in the newer sections of the Bible.

Still, there is no mention of performing sexually with children in these new ways, nor are there any mention of whether it is right nor wrong.

Morality, or the word "moral" is also, as a word no where to be found in the old or new ways. Least not in the KJ version.

I cannot profess to know how Christians intrepret morality, but in Buddhism morality is a practice to do what is right, knowing that ones actions whether mental, verbal or physical have consequences, and that the consequence is the same as the action itself. So in practicing morality one does practice to perform the action necessary to receive beneficial consequences, and not consequences which produce stress (suffering). In other words a practice to do (mentally, verbally and physically) what is right.

From the last post I presented (above) I see that studying the Bible is for reproof, for correction, for instruction for the individual practitioner ... the one who practices to be a "man of God" so that he "may be perfected."

It seems, to me, that you may not have as well an understanding regarding the Bible's ability to transmit the idea of morality to its practitioners. Perhaps you may be confusing the morality of the masses who are not practitioners with the morality of those who are practitioners? (that's a question)

HTML:

 

It really is unimportant!

Whomever reads it may or may not connect. For those that do connect, then it is for them.

What is prophecy?

HTML:

 

Because the words were underlined and edited bold, they catch my attention. Because they catch my attention in this way, it had appeared that there was an attention getting design. The way it strikes me in it's emphasis is to ask the same question you pose, what is prophecy.

My own answer to this question is that it is a witness to what is seen.

 

Why can't we say that religion connects to God? Without religion there would be no proving for His and My existence. Precisely, Without religion the transcendent existence of God would be somewhat the pushing of mutual ideas to have beliefs IN at one another. With an authentic religion those beliefs are held in the Sanctuary of sorts.

 

We can and you just have. Scripture states God to be closer than our own hand and nearer than our own heart.

Quite the opposite it would seem the transcendent existence of God would allow for religion not the other way round.
We are devotional by nature, from the instinct for self preservation to the sense of gratitude we are predisposed toward the good.

 

I don't know what or how many conversations you have had with Christians throughout your life, but I have had numerous ones and they normally end with them saying that the Bible is the answer to any question that you could possibly have and there are no flaws in the Bible at all. I believe that I have found a flaw. The Bible does not address having sex with children in any shape or form. The point I'm trying to make is the bible is not perfect, like every Christian claims it is. What was totally acceptable in Biblical times is not neccessarily acceptable in this day and age. I hope this makes sense to you, if not, we can discuss it further.

PAX

 

Am I right in thinking that there is a passage in the Bible that says "obey those who rule over you"? I don't know what context this was meant in, but couldn't it be genera,l in just obeying those who put in place the laws of the country? In that case, any question you have will be answered. And, as the law says you can't have sex with under age children, so does the Bible.

 

Although I do not affiliate myself with particular denomination I am a disciple of the Christ teaching. Everything you have just said in regards to normalcy could change in this moment.
The bible does not specifically address sex with children, nor does the bible specifically address the safe following distance in an automobile. I regard the bible as perfect in the respect that it does everything a book does, perfectly.