Bible Questions? III

It's our God, pal, the One and only, the One you may never know. I realize your mind has been twisted by a dangerous cult (Alan W. Gomes, Unmasking the Cults; Anthony Hoekema, The Four Major Cults). Randall Waters has shown how difficult it is for a person who trusted the Witnesses to think clearly. "The more he ignores the facts, the more narrow-minded and adamant he becomes that he will never change, and he is more convinced than ever that he has the truth. He digs himself into a trench, erecting all sorts of mental barricades against his real enemy, which is doubt. While this seems incredible to the person trying to reach the Jehovah's Witness with the facts, it is just a simple protective mechanism, keeping the Witness from the trauma of losing his sense of security." People with limited educational attainments can thus delude themselves into thinking they are intellectually superior to the best scholars in the world, and dismiss their findings without even reading them. The reluctance of the Witnesses to disclose the identities and credentials of their New World Bible mirrors your own reluctance to disclose the sources of the extra-Biblical articles you quote from time to time, lest you be accused of proselytizing (because then we'd all realize they come from the Jehovah's Witnesses). That's how you've come to be willing to defend genocide, slavery, the subordination of women, homophobia, the rejection of science and scholarship, rejection of life-saving blood transfusions, and a Jesus confused with the Archangel Michael. You claim to revere Mosaic law, and should therefore know that the name of God (YHVH) was not to be pronounced by lay people. It was considered blasphemy, punishable by death to do so. Yet the Witnesses have taken a butchered version of it for the name of their organization, and the New World Bible translators sprinkle it throughout both the Old and New Testaments, even , untenably, using it in place of Kyrios. Cults are viral memes, and like any good viruses, they have strong defense mechanisms, especially the discouragement of independent, critical thought. Their members essentially become vectors for a mind crippling disease.

But never say never. There's still time for you to change. Some books that might help you are: Heather and Gary Bolting, The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses; Steven Hasan, Releasing the Bonds; Edmond Gruss, The Four Presidents of the Watchtower Society; Charles Love, Twenty Questions Jehovah's Witnesses Can't Answer; William Lingle, What the Watchtower Doesn't Want You to Know;M. James Penton, Apocalypse Delayed; David A. Reed, Index of Watchtower Errors,1879to 1989, and Jehovah's Witness Literature: A Critical Guide to the Watchtower; and Daine Wilson's excellent Awakening of a Jehovah's Witness: Escape from the Watchtower Society. Yes I know, you claim not to be a Witness, just influenced by them--a kind of fellow traveler. But the cult has left a clear imprint on your thinking. It will be difficult to break free, but others did it. You can, too.

 

I just can't find the scripture where it says olderwaterbrother is superior to anyone else in understanding what "the bible says"

You mean like the bible is the unerring word of god?

The bible does not interpret itself being an inanimate object, it requires a human interpreter to interpret it.

What is the scripture that would cause you to do that?

 

Sorry waterbrother, You did indeed answer my question.

 

Wow, I guess it's a good thing I'm not a Jehovah's Witness.

 

But close. As I said:"Yes I know, you claim not to be a Witness, just influenced by them--a kind of fellow traveler". Can you think of any JW positions you don't agree with? No blood transfusions? Jesus as the Archangel Michael? the New World translation as your favorite Bible translation, etc. ?

 

J.W. are very heady in their conscience for the love of the neighbour. But where do they exist together with each other?

But Salmon Rushdie could write about then as well now. ' the Holy Community (I don't believe they say: "Spirit") for the Body of Jesus Freaks.

 

This is a description of the type of "belief" I was referring to earlier. This kind of belief, must be defended because there are no objective constituents to uphold the ideas. Further, how strongly you believe becomes the measure of your faith. If you run into trouble it is because you did not believe strongly enough.

 

"Must be defended" like a Wooden rampart, but as of yet not as something ethical some kind of plastic substantiality.

 

The only dealings I've had with J,w. is at my door. Most remarkable, they would have me see disease where there is none, presumably that they might cure it. I don't know what waterbrothers associations are with the jw organization but his ideas about the inescapable nature of sin, completely disregards the effects of Christ.

For instance he quotes Romans, 5:12, "therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned." He has not included the next verse, "sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law." Further at verse 17, "if because of one mans trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ." Verse 6;14 states, "for sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace." Verse 7:6, "but now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the spirit."

We here that the wages of sin is death yet in first John 5:17 we see written, "All wrong doing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal." First John 3:6, "No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him." First John 3:9-10 "No one born of God commits sin; for God's nature abides in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God. By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil; whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother."

 

As I've said before I do not know all the positions of the witnesses and thus do not know what I agree or don't agree with.

 

(1 Peter 3:15) . . .But sanctify the Christ as Lord in YOUR hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone that demands of YOU a reason for the hope in YOU. . .

 

All of which only demonstrates the need for Christ's sacrifice which you deny.

 

Actually there are many called god, as for for knowing your god, why would I want to know a god that is so namby pamby that he can not even make up his own mind how he wants to be worshiped and needs to allow his worship to evolve according the the whims of those who worship him.

 

I've noticed that you assiduously avoid using the Bible in your comments but perhaps you would be so kind as to show were in the Mosaic law or for that matter anywhere in the bible, that the name of God was not to be pronounced by anyone.

 

Fine, if you wish, assume they all come from the witnesses if you wish. I don't see how it makes any difference. I post things for people to examine; not like you do, to try and prove your point.

 

Limited educational attainments?

Interestingly Jesus' only "educational attainment" was being a carpenters son, does that mean you find him intellectually inferior?

 

If the pronunciation and even the proper spelling of the name has been lost, then how do you know the version the witnesses use is "butchered" or not? Sorry, my guess is you'll say your "Bible Scholars" told you.

Also the NWB translators did not just "sprinkle" God name throughout the Old Testament they merely used God's name where the tetragrammaton was found in the Biblical manuscripts, instead of replacing it with something else as other translators do.

As for the use in the New Testament, although I've said I don't necessarily agree with it's use there, I understand it. I believe that the witnesses say that they have used it in the New Testament when a Old testament scripture is being quoted that originally contained the tetragrammaton.

 

Sorry didn't help the first time I read them, I doubt that reading them again will help much.

I'm surprised you didn't throw in "30 Years a Watchtower Slave" for good measure.

 

You keep saying the Bible says these things, I'm merely defending the Bible.

As for slavery, I'm I correct in assuming that you do not consider yourself a slave of God and of the Christ?

 

Funny, when I read this, I thought; this sounds a lot like Okiefreak.