Bible Questions? III

Jesus comment on our relationship to substances is this;
It is not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out.

 

As does the alcohol in wine, yet He partook of it.

 

Matthew 15:13 - 14
But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

 

On another level the same principle applies to circumstances. Another way of stating this might be we are not at the mercy of exterior forces, there are no victims.

 

People all too often become victims of or create victims out of circumstance. It isn't the event that makes you a victim, it's the way you respond to it.

 

Go and try some rhubarb leaves. MMMMM, convulsions and comas. Sounds like God really knew what he was doing with that one

 

Where can I buy!?!??! :eggnog:

 

Okay let's look again.
Here is your whole quote;

Taking it apart;

Yes it seems that it does have a particular meaning, mostly to dodge the question while seeming to answer it.

God has many children but what does that mean? Some of God's children are sons of adoption, are you saying that Jesus is no more than an adopted Son?

Actually no, as I've pointed out being a brother to someone does not mean that you necessarily have the same father.

Yes Jesus is male and that would make him a son but as I've just pointed out done of your reasoning leads to the belief that Jesus is a son of god, let alone the Son of God, the first born of all creation.

 

Okay let's look at it this way, for what purpose would Jesus use cannabis? Jesus is the Son of God, the first born of all creation and spent billions of years by God's side. Jesus was without sin and loved God and all mankind and was loved by God, why would Jesus need to escape from all that by deadening his senses with cannabis? When Jesus was in severe pain while being killed, he even refused to deaden his senses with the drugged wine that was offered to him, why would he do that if he had been drugging himself with cannabis all a long? Jesus could heal sickness and raise the dead, since when is that the result of using cannabis?

Suddenly the Bible makes sense to you because you think they were all high on cannabis? Do you really think that when they say "All scripture is inspired of God" that means they were all high on cannabis? Do you really think that the only way for the God that made the whole universe to inspire some one is to get them high on cannabis? Honestly, just read the sermon on the mount and again tell me that anyone you know, that is a habitual user of cannabis could have said all that without wandering off to feed his munchies, let alone keep his mind focused on what he was saying for that long?

So they weren't written 2000 years after Jesus, so what? Are they God's word? Then why did God allow them to fall into disuse? The Bible has survived and has been in continuous use since Jesus' time, despite all the efforts to suppress it.

I believe they exist but I don't base my worship of God on them.

 

Honestly, when people see 'inspiration by God', I don't think they know what that is exactly.

Take the ancient Hebrew Pictograph for 'Heir', and we see a germinating seed. What does a germinating seed look like and how was it possible for ancients with no microscopes to know that it represents a sperm cell? The Hebrews dealt with concreteness in reality and used those understandings and saw God in reality. I see no relations to this and the experience that one has while they are under the intoxicating effects of cannabis. It's just a matter of relating the effects and experiences of the two and then we can see that they are two very different things.

A comparisons of the effects cannabis has on the person and the 'effects' that one has as they examine nature and relate holes in a tent to the tent that God has stretched over us (The universe). On weed, we can experience many different things such as the background becoming the foreground and the foreground becoming the background, or we can get hungry, experience tunnel vision, or having a waking dreamlike effect. How does this even compare to the symbolic yet VERY CONCRETE and real symbolism of our reality?

 

I didn't figure you would apologize.

No you did not, you said children of God, that does not mean that God fathered them.(Romans 8:15)

And you don't seem to have an answer for the question I asked either.

By a spirit anyway.

Oh, I understand alright. I understand that the obscure and ambiguous comments you make seem to suit your purposes.

 

This will prove to be a difficult area because our definitions of what Jesus was are different. I think Jesus may have used cannabis to connect to his spiritual side, to hear the voice of love. Because hate and evil are inherently human (perhaps due to being banished from the garden of Eden) we are not born automatically hearing the voice of love. It is something we have to be jarred to hear, something we have to choose. I think that Jesus may have, and I think that Moses in fact used oils and incense that had cannabis as an ingredient as a way to connect with that love that is often over looked because of the imperfect nature of man.

I'm assuming you may not have used cannabis before. Many people who haven't (and many religious people I've spoken to) seem to think that it is an escape. The effects of cannabis in fact tune one in to fine details. Escape from life while under the influence of cannabis is impossible. Perception becomes accute and increased and one is able to clearly interact with the world using their feelings and instinct as opposed to just their sight and hearing. There is nothing Jesus needed to escape from. However he did need to convince as many people as possible that there was a god named love who is the father of every one of us. That's a pretty ambitious path. Cannabis can help one come into direct contact with that voice of love, you may know this if you've indulged before. Moses was the one who started the ritual use of cannabis, not Jesus. And one must remember that cannabis back then was probably not as potent as today's. You're confusing the times and simply equating a plant with lazy, stoned individuals, but the times were different back then. I'm sure people didn't simply burn some incense and then sit around eating Doritos. Jesus refused to relieve his pain in that situation because he felt that his suffering was necessary, otherwise if he did not suffer, what would be the point of going through that. Yes, Jesus cured many people, as for raising the dead, that's questionable. Here's but a part of a list of dieseases or ailments cured or relieved by cannabis;

Genital Herpes, AIDS Related Illness, Post W.E. Enephalitis, Chemotherapy Convales, Shingles (Herpes Zoster), Radiation Therapy,
Viral B Hepatitis, chronic Viral C Hepatitis, chronic Other arthropod bone disease, Lyme Disease, Reiters Syndrome, Post Polio Syndrome,
Malignant Melanoma, Other Skin Cancer, Prostate Cancer, Testicular Cancer, Adrenal Cortical Cancer, Brain malignant tumor,
Glioblastoma Multiforme Cancer, site unspecified Lympho & reticular cancer, Myeloid leukemia, Uterine cancer Lymphoma,
Graves Disease, Acquired hypothyroidsm, Thyroiditis Diabetes Adult Onset, Diabetes Insulin Dependent, Diabetes Adult Onset Uncontrolled,
Diabetic Renal Disease, Diabetic Ophthalmic Disease, Diabetic Neuropathy, Diabetic Peripheral Vascular Disease, Hypoglycemia, Lipomatosis,
Arthropathy, gout Mucopolysaccharoidosis, Porphyria, Amyloidosis Obesity, exogenous Obesity, morbid
Autoimmune disease, Hemophilia A, Henoch-Schoelein Purpur, Senile Dementia, Delerium Tremens Schizophrenia
Schizoaffective Disorder, Mania Major Depression, Single Episode Major Depression, Recurring Bipolar Disorder, Autism/Aspergers,
Anxiety Disorder Panic Disorder, Agoraphobia, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Dysthymic Disorder Neurasthenia,
Writers’ Cramp Impotence, Psychogenic Alcoholism Opiate Dependence, Sedative Dependence, Cocaine Dependence,
Amphetamine Depend, Alcohol Abuse, Tobacco Dependence, Psychogenic Hyperhidrosi, Psychogenic Pylorospas, Psychogenic Dysuria,
Bruxism, Stuttering, Anorexia Nervosa, Tic disorder, unspecific Tourette's Syndrome, Persistent Insomnia,
Nightmares, Bulemia, Tension Headache, Psychogenic Pain, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, Organic Mental Disorder,
Post Concussion Sydrome, Nonpsychotic Organic Brain Disorder, Brain Trauma, Intermittent Explosive Disorder, Trichotillomania ADD w/o hyperactivity,
ADD w hyperactivity, ADD Pschogenic, PAT Parkinsons Disease, Huntingtons Disease, Restless legs syndrome,
Friedreich’s Ataxia Cerebellar, Ataxia Spinal mm atrophy II, Amytrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS), Other spinal cord disease, Syringomyelia
Reflex, Sympath Dystroph Multiple Sclerosis, Other CNS demyelinating, Hemiparesis/plegia Cerebral Palsy Quadriplegia
Paraplegia Paralysis, unspecific Epilepsy, Grand Mal Seizures, Limbic Rage Syndrome, Jacksonian Epilepsy,
Migraine Migraine, Classical Cluster Headaches, Compression of Brain Tic, Doloroux Bell’s palsy,
Thoracic Outlet Syndrome, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, Mononeuritis lower limb, Charcot-Marie-Tooth, Neuropathy Muscular dystrophies,
Macular Degeneration, Glaucoma, Dyslexic Amblyopia, Color Blindness, Conjuctivitis Drusen of Optic Nerve,
Optic neuritis Strabismus Nystagmus, Congenital Meniere's Disease Tinnitus Hypertension
Ischemic Heart Disease Angina pectoris Arteriosclerotic Heart Disease Cardiac conduction disorder Paroxysmal Atrial Tach Post Cardiotomy Syndrome
Raynaud’s Disease Thromboangiitis Obliteran Polyarteritis Nodosa Acute Sinusitis Chronic Sinusitis Chronic Obst Pulmo Dis
Emphysema Asthma, unspecific Pneumothorax, Spontaneo Pulmonary Fibrosis Cystic Fibrosis Dentofacial anomala
T.M.J Sydrome GastroEsophgeal Reflux Disease (GERD) Acute Gastritis Gastritis Peptic Ulcer/Dyspepsia Colitis, Ulcerative
Pylorospasm Reflux Regional Enteri & Crohns Colitis Colon diverticulitis Constipation Irritable Bowel Synd.
Dumping Syndrome Post Surgery Peritoneal pain Hepatitis-non-viral Pancreatitis Nephritis/nephropathy Ureter spasm calculus
Urethritis/Cystitis Prostatitis Epididymitis Testicular torsion Pelvic Inflammatory Endometriosis
Premenstrual Syndrome Pain, Vaginal Menopausal syndrome Sturge-Weber Disease Eczema Pemphigus
Epidermolysis Bullosa Erythma Multiforma Rosacea Psoriatic Arthritis Psoriasis Pruritus, pruritic
Atrophy Blanche Alopecia Lupus Scleroderma Dermatomyositis Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome
Arthritis, Rheumatoid Felty’s Syndrome Arthritis, Degenerative Arthritis, post traumatic Arthropathy, Degenerative Patellar chondromalacia
Ankylosis Multiple joints pain Intervertebral Disk Disease L-S disk disorder sciatic nerve irritation IVDD Cerv w Myelopathy Cervical Disk Disease
Cervicobrachial Syndrome Lumbosacral Back Diseas Spinal Stenosis Lower Back Pain Peripheral enthesopathies Tenosynovitis
Dupuytens Contracture Muscle Spasm Fibromyagia/Fibrositis Osgood-Schlatter Tietze’s Syndrome Melorheostosis
Spondylolisthesis Cerebral Aneurism Scoliosis Spina Bifida Occulta Osteogenesis imperfecta Ehlers Danlos Syndrom
Nail patella syndrome Peutz-Jehgers Syndrome Mastocytosis Darier’s Disease Marfan syndrome Sturge-Weber Eye Syndrome
Insomnia Sleep Apnea Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Tremor/Invol Movements Myofacial Pain Syndrome Anorexia
Hyperventilation Cough Hiccough Vomiting Nausea Diarrhea
Pain, Ureter Cachexia Vertebral dislocation Whiplash Back Sprain Shoulder Injury
Fore Arm/Wrist/Hand pain Hip Pain Knee, ankle & foot injury Motion Sickness Anaphylactic or Reaction Trachoria Growths

When I hear "all scripture was inspired by god," I first of all don't discount any scripture by saying, "oh, this one is better or more legitimate than that one." All scripture was inspired by god simply means to me that the written material was inspired by love. If god is love then the material was written for the purpose of spreading love, experiencing love, discussing the nature of love, etc. Cannabis can put one in direct contact with the voice of love (as can many other substances that grow naturally on this earth), that is, the voice of god. I've experienced the warmest sensations accompanied by a voice that spoke of nothing but the purest, most uninhibited, unbiased love. Is it wrong that I was high while I experienced this? Is it still wrong if after experiencing this I quit doing bad things to myself and others? Is it wrong that after experiencing this I decided to live my life in a way that would promote peace and love? Not everyone needs cannabis to inspire them, but some can be jarred out of a state and experience love while under its effects. Some can greatly benefit from it, who may not change otherwise. Have you experienced love in a way that makes it almost unbearable to cast stones? Unbearable to not judge people regardless of how they find and experience love? If god is love, what does it matter how one finds him? All that should matter is that they do find him. Do you really know that the rest of mankind is formally your brothers and sisters, but is technically and physically one and the same with you?

Again you're equating today's cannabis users with those of thousands of years ago. There's no reason to be dramatic. Logic can lend itself to even the most hard to believe ideas.

You off the cuff dismissed them as being written 2000 years later. This either tells us that you are ignorant of their genesis and shouldn't have even commented, or it tells us that you knew they weren't but lied so as to dismiss the discussion of those books. Either way it was rather irresponsible.
Are we not all just trying to find truth? Why cloud that with our own personal biases?

So what? One should acknowledge their credibility. As I said, many pre-date the books of the new testament and were long (and before the new testament) considered the official word of god. Who are we to say which is right or wrong?

For the record I don't currently use cannabis. I haven't used it in months, when I do use it it's only to bump my mind out of a rut it may have fallen in over a period of months. Not all users of such things are "stoners" who can't get their heads together long enough to experience something good.

PS- You still haven't given anything to support your claim that he didn't use cannabis.

So god made a mistake the day he created rhubarb? I thought your idea of god was that he's perfect? How does a perfect god make a mistake?

 

Honestly, if I knew what your complaint was, I would certainly do anything I could to help you.

What question.

You have something to say. When I say holy spirit I don't mean Casper the friendly ghost.

You mean communication? What other purpose would I have?

 

That is your reasoning. My reasoning is in my posts.

What is your reason waterbrother, for behaving this way? What is your motive for saying in response to me saying I have the answers provided by the holy spirit, "A spirit anyway"?
When I say I mean one thing, why do you say I mean another?

 

I was being sarcastic with the miskate thing. It was a joke.

My point is that not every green plant is good for us, and that that verse does not mean what you think it does.

St Paul writes that all Creation was graoning ou for its Saviour. Creation changed when sin entered into the world. God's intention was for all the plants to be used by us, but as sin entered the world, things changed.


BTW--the Nag Hammadi texts are mostly the Gnostic Gospels written centuries after the lives of Christ and the Apostles. The Dead Sea Scrolls are texts that comprise what is now called the old Testaments (amonst other texts). I doubt that the Gnostic texts were inspired by love. They believed that women had no souls, that most men were tools of an evil creator god (the demiurge), and that the select few were able to receive hidden knoledge (gnosis) and be saved by passing through different rings of archons to reach the true God. Jesus was not physical at all, but at aeon or an emanation from the true God. All those capable of salvation have little bits of God hidden in our evil flesh. Is that love?

 

I pointed it out twice and you still can't see it? Yeah right.

Almost any question asked of you.

No but most of what you say conflicts with the the Bible and thus it is doubtful that the spirit that you keep referring to is the Holy Spirit.

Miscommunication?

 

Again as I have pointed out many times before, your beliefs do not harmonize with the Bible. You say your beliefs are taught to you by what you call the "holy spirit". The Holy Spirit will not teach people what conflicts with the Bible. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit do not exist divided. Thus what you call the "holy spirit" may be a spirit but it can not be the Holy Spirit.

 

Did you just get Trinitarian on us?

 

Actually you have not heard the extent of what I have been taught. It is wholly consistent within itself as well as the bible. God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are not the bible. I have heard some of your beliefs and the one quoted below violates the teaching of Christ.

"Your beliefs do not harmonize with the Bible. Thus what you call the "holy spirit" may be a spirit but it can not be the Holy Spirit."

 

As far as I can tell you are complaining of some imagined slight, that much I can glean from context.

Was it a bible question?

You suggest that obscure speech suits my purposes then I ask what those are, and you say miss-communication with a question mark after it. Why do you pretend to guess? What is obscure here is truly your motives, not my speech.
It is your proposition, what do you think my purposes are?