Big Brother racism 2!

It is a BIG part of black culture, in this day and age.
And no, not all Black people come from America, and not all black people in America were born in America.
I don't see what that has got to do with it.

 

Yes, I should have said American black culture. It should have been fairly clear what I was talking about from the context - ie that I was not including Australian Aborigines or Masai Mara tribespeople who could well come into a discussion of "black culture" on a wider scale but who are clearly not a part of this discussion about exclusively Western and primarily American culture.

Not just "hood culture" though, whatever you mean by that; it's common in films, music, comedy: it is everywhere. It started off in gangsta rap in the early 90s, but now it is so ubiquitous that girls from Essex who apply to go on Big Brother are not only aware of it but unthinkingly incorporate it into their vocabulary as a positive way to address a friend.

Edit:
In fact I said "the black culture in which its use is commonplace" so your criticism is utterly absurd.

 

Hmmmmm, soon you're gonna be telling us that money doesn't grow on trees!:jester:

 

Good post phoenix I agree with you totally, I try to use the word nigga as often as possible in the right contexts and anyone who thinks I'm a racist or shouldn't do it because it's offensive has thoroughly misunderstood a whole strain of positive anti-discrimination culture from Lenny Bruce right up to Dave Chappelle.

Just like in the examples you give, using the word is a positive, inclusive, joyous reinvention and reclamation of language.

 

Thanks, chum. Especially for not calling me a racist too. Though it makes me laugh a bit, when someone says that, it is quite hurtful. I know, gotta be thick-skinned to read/post on forums; but still. Anyone who KNEW me or knew my past, etc would never ever say such a thing bout me. Pretty sad that I feel cos I voice my opinion which might be contrary to others, and get lumped into a group that people seem to be throwing the terms "racist" and "bigot" at our even alluding that that might be the case. I've been on here for a couple of years now and feel like people ought to know a bit of where I'm coming from. So, when it seems like people are saying I'm some sort of bigot/racist well, I can't say I take it too well.

But, oh well, what can you do?

Anyway, off to put away laundry and watch Hot Fuzz before beddy-byes.

 

Bollox, even in these contexts the word "******" can still be deemed as offensive. You wouldn't understand though (obviously). So, you guys can go ahead and state your opinions, but because you have never been affected, you actually have no ground to stand on. Just because you've watched a few black comedians and you think you're "down with the lingo", you think it's acceptable. What a joke.

First and foremost, the word "******" is always going to be seen as a derrogatory term. Not to me personally, but to many out there it still hits a raw nerve.

 

Would I be wrong to suggest that black British culture on the whole is simply British culture?

 

Clearly I don't know what it's like to be a black person being racially abused but that has nothing to do with the debate at hand or my ability or right to think carefully about the issues and form opinions. First hand experience is not a prerequisite for having an opinion on any subject and in many cases it is a hindrance to forming a balanced and considered opinion since emotion will cloud your judgement. Belittling my considered, reasoned and justified opinions on the basis that I'm not black is really beyond the pale.

If you want to engage with the content of the ideas I've presented then go ahead but please refrain from belittling personal attacks...

 

I don't think so, we're an extremely diverse country afterall

 

Hm, well I guess it comes down to personal opinion if the world ****** is in fact used in some sort of positive way, a word to show friendship, and what not as some people have argued, but personally I could never imagine saying "What's up ******" to anyone, it seems downright rude and wrong to me, it always has, and I guess it always will.

 

I don't see how this is a personal attack. I'm just trying to get you to actually think about what you're saying. I'm not even what is classified as black, particularly as I have been brought up in a caucasian family, so I don't even understand fully, but what I do understand is that these sorts of words can be offensive to some and you should take this into consideration.

By all means, opinions should be expressed and voiced and people are free to disagree. But, if you think that using such terms are justified due to watching black comedians, you're sadly mistaken.

 

That was not a personal attack, it was a strongly opinioned statement though.

Some peoples realise a suffering either familial or ancestral but a suffering nonetheless. The offspring of the perpotrators of this suffering should mind there P's and Q's i.e. give a little due respect. Middle class white people should not extol the use of the N word by society, its more a case of manners than anything else really.

 

Basically, I should have just said "How would you know what's offensive to black people and what's not?" ...etc etc etc

 

Well it should be clear from what I've written that this is something I have thought a lot about. I've tried hard to explain my reasons for supporting the use of this word; to characterise my views as the unthinking parroting of "black comedians" without having thought about the content, and certainly to suggest that I can't possibly understand something simply on the basis of my race is actually quite offensive and shows you haven't really paid attention to what I've written.

Of course I understand that this word has a long history of offensiveness, that's precisely why I believe its reclamation in a positive sense is so important - something I've said several times. And it's not like I'm the only person: as stated this is part of a long tradition of deliberately countering racism by attempting to lessen harmful power of words like this - words only have the power and the meanings that people give them.

Words change all the time. Throughout this thread you have people saying things like "this word is offensive and always will be" which demonstrates a fundamental misconception of the nature and function of language. Words are defined by the inferences we draw from their contextual usage. They slip around as our cultural understanding of the concepts to which they are attached alter - they are not attached wholesale to particular ideas or states of mind, they are variable signifiers. Deliberately recontextualising a word is part of a positive attempt to diffuse the vindictive and shocking and harmful power a word such as this has attained and reposition it as one which can no longer cause so much harm by dint of its ubiquity and the new associations we give it.

 

The english language is littered with hundreds, ne, thousands of dead words we no longer use, just let the word die. Let hip hop culture play its own little games and keep its made up words as well, we dont have to get involved with that world.

 

Do you go around calling people wogs aswell?

Many people have more respect that that for others and won't use such words. At the end of the day, if you were to go up to a random black person and call them a ******, you'd probably get a fucking good slap. Which implies, that the word is still offensive and will be for some time in the future.
Yes, lexis does change all the time. Look at the use of "gay" at the moment. However, it's much more difficult to turn negative connotations into positive ones. Your argument is still not justified.

But whatever, I'll agree to disagree because we're just going around in circles.

 

That's not very likely: this new version of the word has steadily been catching on throughout our culture, as this Big Brother episode demonstrates. Words die when people no longer find that they serve their purpose, but it looks like this word has found a niche. You can try and ban it, try to hide it, try to ignore it, hope that it will die, but as long as people find it expresses something for them it will stay alive. Conversely the racially offensive version of the word is gradually dying out as it is increasingly seen as unacceptable. I think we need to learn to live with "nigga" for the time being, because it's going to be around for a while. Personally I see it as an anti-racist positive reclamation success story.

 

Clearly not, and again a suggestion which shows that you aren't engaging with what I'm actually saying...

 

And we get back to the supposed personal attack here...

You say that ****** as a negative word is dying out. HOW CAN YOU SAY THIS? HOW DO YOU EVEN KNOW? YOU DONT! You are seeing this from an outsider's point of view. I still walk down the street and every now and again some drunken wanker will shout it at me. I've seen people being abused in the streets and this word being used. My friend, who is Indian, was even called a ****** and a Paki infront of her 7 year old son.
So don't try and tell me this word is dying out when I know first hand that it blatently isn't.

 

No, I am...it was clearly another indication that I was using sarcasm...as is this!