Big Three Bailout Dead

lol and why not?? the government has been doing it for years with social security..

 

Dude, what fucking planet do you live on anyway??? Companies are going under, they're doing whatever they can to stay afloat. Retirement funds and health insurance provided to retirees have already started reduction and in some cases cancellation. They can, they are and they will. Know why? Because we live in a world where big business has fucked over the common man and fought regulation to PREVENT what is going on right now and it's time for them to bend over and take it. They didn't evolve, now they die.

GM retirees are going to be really hungry in about 6 months when their benefits die and their savings run out and I have no pity for them.

Now waste some more of your precious day telling me what a cold-hearted bastard I am...

 

And yet people still believe in the "trust fund"!

Why? I don't want them bailed out either.

 

GM has over $40 Billion in pension assets,92-96% funded.


60% of GM/UAW workers are eligible to retire in 5 years,their(my) benefits are guaranteed for as long as i/we live.

You have no reason to pity us.


btw, Chyrsler's pension fund is OVERFUNDED by 2 Billion.

Now that im curious i'll look up Ford.

 

Those are great stories especially when you believe them but the problem is they are all trust and belief and the trust is fading and so the stores unravel and become just stories.

 

in cads defense i heard a complete breakdown of their pension funding on the radio last night and it in greater detail pretty much jived with what he stated..
to be honest i was surprised.

 

So what are the “funds” AIG stocks, shares in mortgages, invested with Madoof

Or future projections of the GM corporation.

 

I presented FACTS, look them up if you don't believe me.

But please don't try to discredit me with paranoia hearsay.

UAW Pension plans are the most solid thing out there, i'm not depending on or counting on S.S.

 

Your last post you were the expert, now you're showing you have/had NO clue to begin with.

You just wish it to be true.......

 

im curious as well cad. i dont doubt they are funded now but what makes you so sure they wont lose much of their value as the market continues to tumble?
from what i understand there really is no safe bet right now. what does GM know the rest of the world doesnt?

 

First, they haven't lost anything while everything else has/is.
2008 VEBA gained 4.8%

Bottom Line,the UAW take care of their employees'

Its not what GM knows, its What the UAW knows.


If all goes bad, i still have over 30k shares in GM. thx ESOP.

 

I not an expert it is just common sense like the age old saying “A Guaranty is only as good as the Company”..

Seriously GM said 8 months ago they were strong, solid, and competitive now they say they are broke on the verge of collapse and need welfare..?
And people still want to believe the stories.?

 

That's what i'm saying too...And it doesn't get any better than the UAW.

Maybe i confused you when i said

When i should have said The UAW has over $40 Billion in a VEBA Trust for GM retirees,same as for Chrysler.(not the same amount, but it is in a VEBA trust,which is still overfunded by $2 Billion)

You call asking for a LOAN welfare ?

What stories?

 

stock in a company that is going to end up nationalized,just what id rest my laurels on...

 

Ok I must of mis interpreted something down the tread but I don’t think GM is going to dig out of the 20 year hole they have created and I don’t think pensioners will see much of the money GM has promised them.

I call their loan welfare because I really don’t see them paying it back.

They are producing cars and trucks only a government worker will drive and I don’t think their government contracts will keep them afloat.

 

^
GM is still the biggest car seller in the entire world, they have horrible structural problems in their business though and the UAW refuse to ever budge on anything

 

The UAW has little say in the fortunes and failures of GM. Those who condemn the UAW as the entity responsible for GM's troubles should be deeply regretful.

It is primarily the failure of Generations of GM executives who have ignored all wisdom about fossil fuels, energy, global warming, free-market corporation "ethics," community responsibility, and creative competence.

Hundreds of immensely qualified climate scientists (and one Nobel Laureate ex-V.P.) have established the varacity of the Global Warming Crisis. But, GM still makes Hummers, essentially a tank without weapons that almost always serves as an environmentally-wasteful fashion-statement . . . because "people will buy them."

Ultimately, all blame for this shipwreck belongs to the captain, not the crew.

 

^
When the crew that's asleep refuses to go on duty to help pump water out of a sinking ship then the crew might be somewhat to blame

Obviously the UAW isn't the sole downfall of GM, but they're not helping either, they constantly refuse to make any concessions that would make them lose a dime

 

Gotta take the good with the bad, i wasn't crying when the dividend checks were rollling in.

Besides, Nationalization is just one option. The last option at that.

I don't see GM digging themselves out either.

Again, its the UAW that promises the pension, not GM.
(and its not a promise to pay,its a fund)

Over 500,000 retired UAW workers get their checks every month.

 

But the checks come from GM and the such, if GM goes bust and declares bankruptcy some options include:

1. GM could drop its pensioners onto the federal government. I find this extremely likely given how much money they must spend to support it. United Airlines did just that when they went through bankruptcy.

2. GM could void its warranties. However, they may not because doing so would basically kill the market for their cars (not that bankruptcy wouldn't do that anyway).

3. GM could void its labor contracts. This would allow them to slash wages and/or health coverage, and cut unnecessary staff. Any cut staff end up on welfare and Medicaid, probably for a good long while as no car maker will want to hire them. Michigan's economy would be devastated.

4. GM could void its franchise contracts with dealerships. Again, cut staff end up on welfare and Medicaid. This seems to be a necessary step with a bailout or with bankruptcy, although a bailout may provide for incentives for franchises to close as opposed to forced closings via bankruptcy.