Bill Maher gets in scuffle: but are the Conspiracy Theorists right?

Wow Ozone, all I can say is I'm super-thrilled that at least 10s of millions of people in the world disagree with you on that. That was the most backwards-thinking argument I've heard in a long time. Chomsky actually said something quite similar to it. Perfect gate-keeping tactic.

The current power-regime in the U.S. murders 3000 of its own citizens in what can only be described as Treason of the highest order, and this guy says "concentrate on other things".

Bite me, traitor.

 

You're using the tired and flawed logic that "Bush did it." I don't think anyone who knows what they're talking about will say that, because Bush is just a frontman. It's the unelected elites and their many bureacracies behind Bush which wield the real power and make the real decisions. Nothing Bush says or does is without their approval. Bush is simply propped up so you THINK he's the one in charge. These attacks were carried out by a black faction of one or multiple US intelligence agencies, combined with one or more private corporations of the military-industrial complex, and I am sure foreign intelligence played a role as well, including MI6, Mossad, and the Pakistani ISI.

It won't matter who wins in '08, because they all represent the same masters behind the proverbial curtain -- the people who run and control the money supply. Hillary is no different. The only person who is different from all the rest is Ron Paul, and it's doubtful they're going to let him win without seeing a similar fate as JFK.

And we don't even need to get into the engineering aspect of how the towers fell and what brought them down, because there is so much other evidence that points to government involvement besides simply physical evidence from the towers. We could start off by addressing the $100,000 that was wired to Mohammed Atta by the head of Pakistani intelligence, General Mahmoud Ahmed, just days before the 9/11 attacks, who was in Washington meeting with officials on the morning of the attacks. This was completely ignored by the 9/11 Whitewash Commission, as well as the collapse of WTC-7 and so much more.

 

edit ...

 

You know PR, it's good to see where you stand and see that you won't sway when confronted on it. Need more people out there like that.

 

People need to start getting together now to resist this crazy shit.

and this shit is crazy. It's real crazy. We need some real protests and real marches.

 

non-violent direct action...civil disobedience.

 

The Loose Change debate was great. Those kids got schooled. It was a good example of what is typical with the 9/11 truth movement. When one theory is disproved it then becomes irrelevant and another is brought up. When that one is disproved.... well you get it. The funny thing is, if you have enough time, they can all be disproved. Or at least argued to a point where the theory itself cannot be proved and is therefore an unsubstantiated claim. As far as I am aware the batting average for rock solid evidence for the 9/11 truthers is .000

 

Well wackyiraqi, I guess you have yet to read David Ray Griffin's book "Debunking 9/11 Debunking". And you know what? I'm sure you're NEVER read it.

Point is, everything you said in the above post is completely and utterly...wrong. Nice attempt at convincing yourself otherwise, though.

 

Without whose approval? Magic "black" figures behind the shadows, conveniently impossible to point out? What a coincidence....

Obviously corporations remain as governments change, and they dictate a lot of US policy, but as I said before, you're never going to convince enough people that they were involved to actually do anything about it. Most [eople have way too much invested in this system to tear it down. How many people do you know who complain about how evil Wal Mart is, but shop there anyway?

For ANYTHING productive to come from this discussion, things will have to get MUCH worse. IF the government was responsible for the attacks doesn't matter. People in this country live more comfortably than almost anywhere else in the world. The vast majority of them simply won't be willing to sacrafice social stability in the name of "truth", especially when the "truth" is so debatable anyway. (Say what you will about what "engineers" say about it...I go to any ivy league school and any time this issue gets brought up in an engineering lecture the questioner basically gets laughed out of the room).

Depressing, yes, but also true.

The head of pakistani intelligence wired $100,000 to a terrorist
On 9-11 that head of intelligence was in DC
----------------------
Therefore, the US government orchestrated the attacks.


I think you need to work on the way logic works...

 

Also keep in mind that while this may be a country in which the citizens live "comfortably" (which really depends on your economic background...living in a practical warzone isnt exactly comfortable") this is also a country that was founded on revolution and tailored to freedom.(Lets keep in mind the second ammendment was created for the sole purpose of overthrowing government) That same mentality of freedom and patriotism is alive today, unfortunately its just pointed in the wrong direction due to the gov's use of misinformation. So to say that people aren't willing to do anything strikes me as untrue.

I think the dilema lies in presenting people with the actual truth and getting some type of mobilization and unity. I dont know exactly what its going to take to wake people up. Even if you don't agree with the 9/11 conspirators you can't deny that the government is taking more and more freedoms and functioning less and less like a true democracy...or even a respectable, innovative nation.

 

Actually this country was founded on genocide. Ask any indigenous person here.

 

Ok, I listened. Nothing new.

The DJ, made alot of Ad hominem attacks. The Guy from popular michanics wasn't even given a fair shake on his show. He wasn't allowed to respond at times or nothing. If he didn't have an answer (about dna matching) then he was chastised. But if the DJ didn't have an answer then it was forgotten. I don't know what you do but the PM guys work with this evidence they don't pretend to know like CTS do. So I can see why he would wait on more evidence before he speaks further on something asked of him. Any one can ask a question nothing wrong with that, but not everyone can provide a factual answer like PM has on this subject.

Secondly, this is 1 year old audio I heard a along time ago. Every claim made here I've already proven untrue. But you have to keep in mind the whole entire Conspracy theory is a lie and filled with misinformation. Popular mechanics took on the job to uncover the evidence to see if the Conspracy theories were right. They found out... they weren't. The real obi one kenobi of debating these CT'S is Mark Roberts who has read 10,000 pages of the nist report and is one of the most knowledgeable guys on this subject. I've already linked you to the info on Larry silverstein insureance, the molten metal, and I explained "Pull it" and showed you what the demolishion experts really say in their report. I will take their word over some random caller with a dictionary reference.

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/conspiracistsmisrepresentwtc7'scondition
real condition of wtc 7.

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/canofficefirescauselargesteelcolumnsandb
The molten metal issue.

The oringinal DNA simples could have came from a number of places without it being a inside job. These 19 did infact live in places in america while they plotted 9/11. There was a investgation into 9/11. I purpose everyone was a suspect on the flight manifests until all the complied evidence during the investgation started pointing to those 19 on the flight manifests. This is why the 19 weren't put on the victims list CT'S tried to slip this passed you by pawning it off to you as the flight manifests. It was the victims list not the flight manifest! Martyrdom videos were even made by these 19 losers and released by As-Sahab. Not to mention, utlized and praised by Al-Zawahiri. Once you have your suspects then you have to collect evidence to idenify them. So they did. From here the investigation retraces their steps and uncoveres all 19 terrorists where abouts after the fact, so It is not far-fetched to think thats where the forensic teams got their DNA samples from inorder to make a match. Recap, All the forensic teams really had to do was retrace the Magnificent 19's steps to come up with this DNA match. Plus some of their ID's and belongings where found so I don't think it's unlikely that DNA fingerprints weren't found inorder to collaborate the DNA match. (Also important to note civilians ID's and belongs were found as well.) The terrorist infact had families as well the forensic teams could have very easily gotten their DNA smaples from them after the fact as well. FYI: I already explained that BBC retracted the terrorist alive fabercation. THIS AUDIO TAPE IS NOT ONLY OLD, IT'S ASSERTING GARBAGE ARGUMENTS ALREADY DEBUNKED. The answer I have given is a acceptable one that follows the logic of Occam's razor (the simplest solution tends to be the best one) it makes sense with all the evidence as well.

 

Careful Gardener might start to question the importance of this "Egyptian geek".

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260165&page=4&pp=10

 

^^^ I like your sig.

To the OP: I personally believe that the gov't may have been directly involved, but the evidence is a bit sketchy.

 

Wow Gravity, I appreciate your effort...I really do. But the Truth WILL come out eventually. As for the DJ...he's the interviewer, not the interviewee. He's not obligated to "have an answer". As for PM's replies, they do not hold any water.
I'd urge you to read Dr. David Ray Griffin's "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions" as well as his "Debunking 9/11 Debunking". No one can listen to Dr. Griffin and still come away believing the official conspiracy theory (which the official story indeed is).

 

I beg to differ. Although I think this priggishness is excepted... (That Noone could come away believing the official conspiracy after listening to Dr. griffin.)
However, After reading a debunk of his claims I was left to think Dr. griffin was ironically a pseudo-intellectual tragedy. Not to mention, he couldn't provide any physical evidence. See, in a court of law which you may or may not be familiar with, this case would be won on presumption of innocence alone. Should I be.

Anyway, as for David ray griffin. He basically put out claims there were government lies. Ironically it turns out those lies were fabercated by David ray griffin. The irony is bitter sweat. I'll get you the info that's tearing his distortions apart. http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=83058

Debunking 9/11 Debunking.
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Ryan_Mackey_Griffin_NIST_Review_1_1.pdf
"In this paper, examined the claims of Dr. David Ray Griffin regarding the NIST investigation into the World Trade Center disasters, and find those claims to be unfounded. All 18 major claims are discussed and rigorously dismissed, and a further analysis of the text reveals an overwhelming density of factual and logical errors."

All these arguments I see are either novice arguments, redudant arguments put in different context, or unreasonable opinions based on no physical evidence. I'm not going to repeat myself. I'll leave it at this I've seen nothing new brought to the table in my 6 years of research accept ad nauseum ancient debunked garbage. Even the personal attacks I see are redudant and pathetic.

Not a single Institute of Civil Engineers on the Planet agrees with the controlled demolition theory. Not a single of Institute Structural Engineers on the Planet agree with the controlled demolition theory. Not a single Institute of Fire and Safety Engineers on the Planet agree with the controlled demolition theory.
Not a single Institute of Demolition Engineers on the Planet agrees with the controlled demolition theory. Not a single Institute of Architects on the Planet agrees with the controlled demolition theory. Not a single Institute of Engineers in any field on the Planet agrees with the controlled demolition theory.

Not a single institute of engineers in the world agrees with the controlled demolition theory, Every single professional institute of Engineers from everywhere, including Russia, China, Germany, the rest of Europe, the entire planet agree with NIST.

 

You have to admit, Griffen has gotten his 15 minutes of fame, and then some, off 911. If he had an engineering background and anything of substance, he would be doing research conferences with groups such as ASCE. Instead, he's doing this:



He should consider enlisting the services of someone like Ethel Merman to sing his script.

.

 

But not everyone who doesn't believe the official story believes what some of these people in the "Truth" movement are saying. I wouldn't be surprised if most of them are COINTELPRO. David Ray Griffin is an incredibly shady character who has called for a world government. The forward to his first 9/11 book was written by Richard Falk, a CFR member who played a role in the overthrow of the Shaw in '79. People who genuinely pose a threat to the system also do not get two hours worth of air-time from C-Span, either. (This includes Alex Jones as well; another established hero of the conspiracy movement.) The Truth movement is being used in exactly the way I said it woud be used three years ago, which is to marginalize and discredit everyone who questions the official version of events. It's much easier to attack people in groups than it is individuals who can think for themselves.

 

yo
thermite
the only thingy that coulda melted the frame
witnesses, recordings: "boom, boom"
river o molten metal for weeks
also
every architechtural engineer was surprised they fell
even - *shudder* - binlanden
also
the cable guys the weekend before
shut down the complex, shut off the power
no security cameras even - offline for hours
also
mysterious work crews for weeks before
drilling, pounding, vacant floors
also
to recall a generation
follow the money
WTC was bleeding capital
n the guy got double insurance settlement
also
building 7 was not damaged
but that's where all the enron evidence was held
n it was already wired for pro-style implosion demolition
strange but true
they ain't lyin
so
too much ?
ok
bring it to a trial
pile o evidence
correct it if it's wrong
but giggled off the runway
if that's seriously yer best n only play
you get away with too much n too used to it already

 

Thermate isn't the only thing that can cut through steel, it's merely the only CONVENTIONAL material that can cut through steel, with the exception of certain high explosives. My contention is that whatever brought down the towers was unconventional. I am not refusing to believe that thermate was used in some way, but if it was, it wasn't the only thing, as it doesn't explain the pulverization and explosive, high-energy nature of the collapse. At first I was leaning towards directed-energy weapons, but now I believe it was likely low-yield mini nukes (possibly combined with thermate and/or DEW's), and there is much evidence to support this theory.