Because people have the right to object, get offended, protest etc in the normal process of free debate. We're talking about the tiny minority who over react and make threats of violence, because they are the only ones doing anything that's unacceptable in this whole story.
If youve seen the reaction to this worldwide I wouldnt say its a tiny minority, you have quite a movement to boycott danish goods, you have attacks threats, to behead people , and Im sure people will die over this . the thing is this lets say this mohammed with the explosive turban cartoon reflects a view of mohammed ,that he and his actions inspire islamic terrorism . now whether you agree with this view or not doesnt matter but lots of people who know a lot about islam have it ,I can think of dozens of ex-muslim writers who would agree with that view . these include the former professor of islamic history of the top islamic university in the world ,a person who could recite the koran as a child ,I think there are few people on earth who know islam as well as him and thats his opinion. so you cant really dismiss this opinion or say that people who have this opinion cant look at drawings that support their view . muslim can read books or draw cartoons that say mohammed was a great guy ,and if he was why would they need to complain if other people have drawings that show him in a bad light . truth would surely shine out if they debated people who have the oppersite view if he and his religion really are peaceful and good
Patently ludicrous. 1.3 billion muslims in the world, if the extreme reaction were a mass movement within that we'd really be in trouble. As it is we have variously "hundreds" or "thousands" of protestors, the vast majority peaceful. A very few making threats of violence, or starting fires. No-one has died. The overwhelmingly vast majority probably wouldn't even care about the issue if they weren't told to by their religious leaders and extremists attempting to stir up fanaticism. Talking about trade sanctions is not illegal - the Iran thing is clearly related to other political reasons which have been going on for a long time. This kind of inflammatory talk plays right into the hands of the extreme elements.
London has recently been hit by two waves of suicide bombers, and people died. Why are we trying to play this down? If skinhead mobs had recently gone on rampages and killed two dozen Pakistanis, would we be ignoring them when they protested while waving giant signs that said "Kill Pakistanis"? Would we wonder whether they meant it? No we wouldn't. It is just too inconvenient for our PC ideals, so even when someone comes right out and says WE WANT TO KILL YOU, people have to say "Oh, er, well, what they really mean was... besides Jerry Springer... and one time this woman burned her TV license... etc etc" . Part of this "projection" of our views (or at least views we can understand) onto these radicals, is the idea that the cartoons were offensive. You have to remember that the depiction of Allah at all is blasphemy, it doesn't matter if he has a bomb in his turban. So that's sidestepping the issue. The weirdest part is that these protesters are using freedom of speech to protest against freedom of speech. Did these people protest when the Taliban dynamited ancient statues of Buddha? Do they protest the publication of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion or swasticas on the Israeli flag? No.
they are doing the same as they did during the rushdie affair no one was ever prosecuted for that ,there is a racist and religious bias in our political leaders and in the media . heres a "mistake" in the bbc coverage of the protest march http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4683002.stm says "Police are coming under political pressure to explain why no arrests were made during demonstrations in which protesters chanted threatening slogans. " but in http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news3.shtml we have A PROTESTER dressed as a suicide bomber in the heart of London is ignored by cops yesterday...as another troublemaker is arrested for handing out offensive cartoons. Full of hate, the Asian man in his twenties had gone out of his way to cause maximum offence. He arrived at the west London demo in camouflage grey and white trousers, a white T-shirt and a black army-style waistcoat covered in bulging pockets. The man, with two pals, also wore thick padded gloves and a black bandanna. Hauled One onlooker said: "He was clearly dressed like a suicide bomber—the waistcoat he was wearing had pockets which appeared to be filled out with packages. "This man was there to intimidate passers-by. It was extremely offensive considering what Londoners have been through with the July bombing atrocities. There were police nearby but he was not arrested." But another man, suspected of trying to provoke Muslims, was hauled inwhen cops moved in to stop him handing out copies of the cartoons which sparked the demo. He and a second agitator—the pair are believed to be German and Irish, were held for breach of the peace. They were taken to Central London police station for several hours until the demo had finished. same as rushdie they arrested people then and let the bastards go, I would guess they are getting told to arrest people who protest against these jihadis and let the jihadis do what they like labour and conservative are just bad as each other as thatcher was in charge during the rushdie affair , and now you have the same policy of appeasement from blair its all part of a pattern where we have islamists knighted in the uk and the media repress critics of islam and homophobe clerics are called moderates .
I used to be on the whole, "Don't generalize" ideology. But ya see, whether you like it or not, ya have to. No, not all Muslims are like this. But a much greater percentage of the Islamic religion are like this, compared to the Christian religion. And being in the middle east has nothing to do with it. In London, in supposedly one of the most civilized countries in the world, theyre were a vast number of Muslim's chanting "Freedom go to Hell". Now maybe I am generalizing, but hey, if I met a muslim it wouldn't affect my opinion of him. And at the protest, a guy shouted at them "Freedom of speach" or something along those lines, and police told him to shut it or he would get arrested. That's ridiculous. We are so careful not to offend muslims nowadays, or any group, racism, sexism, it's such a fine line it's absurd. And here we have a load of people not generalizing because it goes against the mainstream, "politically correct" thing to say. But open your eyes. It's true. Why? God knows. I believe it's because there isnt often a "casual" muslim. They tend to get extremely heavily involved in religion, more so than most other faiths. I'm sure we can say "I know a muslim..." but if you really look into the masses... Anyway, generalize or not, I don't agree with religion at all. All it does is bring this world down. People say it has great moral values, but I need no religion to base my moral values upon, I need no book to tell me or hide behind. "Religion is the opium of the masses"
the bbc have given a apology for showing parts of the cartoons although they didnt show parts of the bomb turban one or no uk newspaper printed them . http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,,1703379,00.html "BBC News executives have apologised for any offence they caused by showing the controversial Danish cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad - but said the corporation had stopped short of using "excessively offensive" images. UK national newspapers decided not to publish the cartoons, which were originally printed in a Danish newspaper and sparked angry protests by Muslims in London, the Middle East and Asia over the weekend. The corporation used video featuring European newspapers that have published the cartoons on its news bulletins, News 24 and the BBC News website. "Obviously the BBC does not want to give offence to anyone on either side of this debate," said Peter Horrocks, the BBC's editor of TV News. "So if people - whichever side of the argument they fall within - have taken offence, I am obviously concerned and I apologise for that...." "But we've taken a decision not to go further than that in order not to gratuitously offend the significant number of Muslims in Britain but also - because we make decisions for our pieces to be broadcast internationally - the very significant numbers of Muslim viewers of BBC World television."
As far as I'm aware none of the July bombers either a) were present at the demonstrations or b) could see into the future Try to stick to the point - well I suppose they all look alike though eh
If by "appeasement" you mean "condemnation" I think the placards calling for beheadings (which I hadn't seen before today) are actually in breach of incitement to violence laws - from the same article: Will be interested to see what comes of this. There are plenty of noises calling for action to be taken against the extremist demonstrators...
lithium the july bomber as far as I know are all dead on the run or in jail so they were unlikely to be there. but these people shared the same ideology otherwise they wouldnt be carrying placards saying praises to the fantastic four or placards saying get ready for the real holocaust . by appeasement I mean appeasement
Kind of my point Describing something as "completely unacceptable" and setting up a police enquiry into the possibilty of criminal prosecutions doesn't read to me as synonymous with "appeasement".
I dont see your point and to me that is appeasement I can say "wooo this is completely unacceptable" and set up a police enquiry into the "possibilty "of criminal prosecutions and basically you will have done nothing, the guilty men wont be detered by tony blair saying this is completely unacceptable , they wont be arrested by some inquiry into the possibility of arresting them . the police had the people on the day and they arrested some people with harmless cartoons that they thought "Might" hand them out ,not the ones dressed as suicide bombers or with big signs saying they wanted to kill us all and chop peoples heads off. you have to look at this as in what I would say has been a policy of appeasement from both labour and conservatives since rushdie .
[fair play to him] "I found the pictures deeply offensive as a Muslim and I felt the Danish newspaper had been provocative and controversial, deeply offensive and insensitive. Just because we have the right of free speech and a free media, it does not mean we may say and do as we please and not take into account the effect it will have on others. '' I understand it was wrong, unjustified and insensitive of me to protest in this way "But by me dressing the way I did, I did just that, exactly the same as the Danish newspaper, if not worse." Omar Khayam 'Swift' police demo probe http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4686410.stm
Ive answered this post in another thread but I think hes using kitman and he doesnt really mean hes sorry hes just saying that because it will give him as hes sees it a advantage . war is deception Mohammed often lied or told his followers to lie. what good would it serve to say yes I dressed as a suicide bomber hes got the effect on his victim reminding them that he and his mates have the power to kill a load of people , and now by lieing he most likely wont get jailed so he can continue the jihad
links about telling lies Taqiyya and kitman http://www.islamreview.com/articles/lyingprint.htm http://www.ci-ce-ct.com/Feature articles/02-12-2002.asp
So what do you think should happen ... personally I'm rather glad that people aren't automatically arrested and charged in this country just for saying something a little rash ... aren't you? Would you rather the police went around arresting people all the time for saying anything which might be construed to be inciting hatred or violence? Given real concerns over these people promoting violence, a proper investigation into whether any laws were broken or actual harm done seems an appropriate and proportianate response.
hm ok havent read all of this post, coz its kinda long and im kinda tired but i hadnt really read anything about this today until i read the sun on the bus to work as thats all my hangover could manage. from what i know, which isnt alot, these cartoons were published in denmark and reprinted. they have not been printed in the uk out of respect for the muslim community in our country, and yet angry hatefilled demos occured in the uk, by british people. british people agreeing with the terror caused during 9/11 and 7/7 but warning us, of more trouble to come! the anger is building up in this minority of muslims to the degree that they seem ready to put action to their word! satire is acceptable. politicians, world leaders, celebrities all are subjected to satire. it is used in most current affairs news items. the cartoon in the sun today proved that with a good cartoon depicting the demonstration in the background, and the british police force with their backs to the protestors fining somebody for entering a bus lane in their car, in response to the lack of arrests of anybody during the demos, except for two people handing out images of the cartoon. in this country religion is of importance to a sector of people. there are those who follow their religion closely and those who choose alternate paths. many followers of islam live their lives through their religion. their religion influences directly the way in which they eat live and breath and so to criticise their religion is offending them individually almost, its is offended the part of themselves which carries that faith. maybe it would be less offensive, and the satire less hated, if the current world situation regarding islam and europe/usa was different, but it isnt! there are a vast number of innocent peaceful muslims all being tarred with the same brush and they im sure are becoming targeted then by uneducated individuals who stereotype them into one category based on their image and race. race and religion are different, people who follow religion are different. most muslims are against this incited hatred and terrorism. but the satire can only add to the fire which is building inside those who choose terrorism as the answer and the hatred already filling these people means that is does not matter whether you are british or danish or american...they feel grieved by is and want to make us pay, and im sure if the fire is kindled they will not stop to think and will act out their threats. with regards to the jerry springer issue. i also did not see it but class it based on what i have read here as an entirely different situation altogether because although in the same category of religious satire...it is only a whole different level in that it was a one off public satire which yes offended some of the british public. there will always be people offended by everything that happens, be it an advert they oppose on the television, a closeminded opinion on a radio call in show etc... but the islam satire about mohammed is different as there are already issues surrounding islam and there are already people who are anger and hate filled. to fuel their fire is a dangerous game
regarding this...i think that the man who dressed up as a suicide bomber had a deliberate and dark message to deliver...it wasnt fancy dress, it was a message, it was serious! he didnt get up in the morning and think 'oh i think ill go in fancy dress' his message goes deeper than that, it was planned. and it is this kinda of serious and deep planning that has brough about so far terrible attacks on our country and the usa. look at the student in oxford who was arrested for telling a police officer his horse was gay! arrested! and yet a minority group of muslims who have already brought terror on the city of london, are out demonstrating, demonstrating because they feel strongly enough to be there, and inciting and warning of terror to come...yes! they are allowed freedom of speech! yes! human rights declare that we all have rights to an opinion, but to stand in a city that has previously been attacked by members of their religion waving placards supporting the atrocity and promising firther attacks, hailing bin laden...yes i do believe that their is cause for arrest an questioning! because now these people, these extremists who hold these beliefs have gone back to their homes, spread out, having maybe met and exhanges details with each other and who knows what plans will come of their anger!
From his statement: "I found the pictures deeply offensive as a Muslim and I felt the Danish newspaper had been provocative and controversial, deeply offensive and insensitive. But by me dressing the way I did, I did just that, exactly the same as the Danish newspaper, if not worse." The suicide bomber outfit could easily be regarded as satire, I found its symbolism rather effective. If we allow people to imply that all Muslims are suicide bombers in a cartoon we must surely allow this extremely offensive symbolic act of his... more power to both the cartoonists and to this fella. He did nothing wrong and furthermore made a powerful statement in his apology ... I defend absolutely his right to offend my sensibilities, as should we all if we believe in freedom of expression.
