Boycott Cars man.

Then how about... "When enough people KNOW ABOUT such ideas, they become possible. When the same people act upon those ideas, they become reality."

Technically, it's not possible to KNOW something that isn't true. However, it IS possible to BELIEVE in something that isn't true. (Haha, this is what philosophy class has done to me. )

 

lol man for me thats a lil to confusing right now maybe I should've waited to read that till I was fully awake an' alert man.

 

Perhaps a boycott on fossil fuels? Wait, our entire country is built on fossil fuels, so at this point it is nearly impossible for the average person. More reason to support alternative fuel research! Then, maybe cars won't be releasing CO2 from burning fossil fuels!

Peace and love

 

I agree with your assessment.. but who is going to tell that to the people who "know" everything (based on their opinion, of course)? Even when the "facts they know" contradict reality? Just wondering.

Peace and love

 

When the big decisions are based on the profits of the priviledged few, instead of on the betterment of humanity and the environment, what do you expect?

 

The Indy Hippy wrote:

"Is any one else besides me worried about this global warming stuff man?"

And that's the smallest part of the damage done by the car lifestyle.

Iron Ore Mines -- Smelters -- Steel Refineries -- Rolling Mills -- Foundries --
Manufacturing facilities || Coal Mines -- Coking Plants || Limestone
Quarries -- Crushing Mills

That's just the basics involved in the production of steel. And don't forget
all the heavy equipment that has to be made and powered to do all that
and transport the various materials in various stages of processing
around. And the roads that wouldn't exist if not for them.

Glass is a biggy here, too, as well as scores of other raw materials.
Like rubber and plastics and copper and aluminum, and lately,
hi-tech components like computers.

Thent there's the fuel infrastructure, from wells to pipelines to docks to
tanker ships, trucks. and train cars...to storage facilities to refineries to
service stations to parts stores and dealerships.

Then there's the roads and parking spaces and home garages and
parking garages and lots.

A full description of the car industry would fill a book. The damage it
does to this planet is staggering, even if they put out no greenhouse
gasses or other pollutants from the tailpipe.

And the number of cars is due to double in the near future and double
again soon after that, with Brazil, China, India and Russia joining
the Industrial Capitalist Empire wholeheartedly.

"Why the hell don't we do something about it? Something peaceful, something unexpected, something totally far-out. Well here's my idea man. We need to boycott cars man."

You'd create a worldwide depression that would make the Great Depression
of the 1930's look like a walk in the park. Incredible numbers of jobs and
retirement incomes and charitable donations and taxes are created by
the car industry-lifestyle.

"Start riding bikes everywhere. Think of it like this. If millions of people stopped buying an' driving cars in the U.S. they'll have to find elsewhere to sell their damn pollution machines man. Then after awhile when they have sat around an' thought about it for a few months or so they'll realise that they need our money an' us to keep them going man. So we state our conditions for the new cars an' bam!! one less major pollution problem in the U.S. man."

There will be an Earth-friendly car when there's a peaceful WMD.

Nice thoughts, but not grounded in reality.

In order to get rid of cars we'll have to recreate civilization from scratch.

Which is a wonderful idea.

LIttlefoot

"The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a
comfortable living from a small piece of land."

-- Abraham Lincoln

 

Many ways to boycott cars. Bicycle manufacturers pollute too, by the way.

My personal car boycott consists of driving a 1986 chevette - 35 MPG - only once a week to town for supplies. My WOOD STOVE pollutes more than my car. Buying all those NEW CARS is most of the trouble. It's WASTEFUL. Keep the oldies rollin'. Only use 'em when absolutely necessary. Car pool if you must drive every day. Of course, by foot is best, but many folks don't have that luxury, and there are lots of folks who need to go someplace who aren't physically able to ride a bike. Nothing is as simple as "all or nothing" and we gotta make allowances for all... But WASTE is the biggest problem of all. In ALL things. And THAT is something EVERYBODY could do something about.

 

No. To boycott cars means that you don't have one. And don't
use them.

This is the kind of self-deception that has given us an environmental
movement that has failed to even slow down the increasing rate at
which we are damaging this planet.

Otherwise, all of your points are excellent. Bicycles are much more
destructive than walking, not only because they need to be manufactured
from steel (or worse), but because they require de facto roads.

A walker can make due with a simple path.

Littlefoot

"The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a
comfortable living from a small piece of land."

-- Abraham Lincoln

 

I just can't let that slide. It is simply not logical to refer to walking
as a "luxury" when compared to driving a car.

Being carried around at high speed while you sit on your butt in
a completely sheltered environment, is a luxury. An extreme luxury.

Not so very long ago, only kings and princes and the wealthiest of
merchants could afford to be carried around by people or animals.

And their choices did one hell of a lot less damage to the environment
than a car does. And were considerably less labor-intensive.

Littlefoot


"The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a
comfortable living from a small piece of land."

-- Abraham Lincoln

 

Littlefoot, Altho it's a wonderful dream and in fact humans IN THEIR NATURAL STATE were not meant to be able to travel so far and so fast, you are simply ignoring REALITIES. Most humans do NOT live in a natural state. Not everyone CAN live without a car or ride of some kind. It's life. The 75 year old woman who lives down the road from me NEEDS a car to get to her doctors appointments and she's not physically capable of gardening so she has to get to the store for groceries SOMEHOW. The people who need to commute over 100 miles a day to work or they would not HAVE a job for god knows how long, thus STARVING..... I'm not even gonna argue these points, it's obvious. You are all gung ho for things that are only an idealistic fantasy. Even more so than having peace in the world. There is no room in your fantasy for the sick or elderly. There is no room in your fantasy for people who live 35 miles from the nearest town. And there is no room in your fantasy for alternatives which WORK in THIS world. You don't even allow for the fact that in order to live alternatively, there must be a SYSTEM in place to live alternatively FROM. Even YOU, being alive and living in THIS society on THIS planet, on THIS earth, are contributing to the pollution of THIS environment. The only way to escape it, realistically, is to die. Otherwise, the BEST ANY of us can hope to do is the best we can for our circumstances. Offering a lot of unrealistic fantasies is not helpful for attaining any REAL goals. We are NOT going to completely erase what has gone before and start over from scratch. You are saying that is the only way, but it AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. Not unless some EVIL FREAK figures out a good way of destroying all HUMAN life without hurting anything else. But until THAT happens, we can only work with WHAT WE HAVE.

Cars don't qualify as luxuries any more in many places. Folks just don't think of them that way. It has become something that is a necessity and people EXPECT to have them. And that's a fact. You won't change anybodies minds either. Every household owns far more cars than they did 20 years ago. Because of this, MANY people CANNOT walk a quarter mile without having a heart attack! Most people who are trying to live as far outside the system as possible, live out in the sticks. But when these out in the sticks folks NEED some sort of supplies, they HAVE TO GO SOMEWHERE for them... Not everyone can walk, not everyone can ride a bike or can even afford to buy one. Not everyone has horses. "Cars" were invented and used for a VERY LONG TIME for a REASON. And that reason was not to destroy the environment.
You think you are the only one who is right. The only one who is living right. Everyone else is wrong somehow, no matter what their situation. Yet you live HERE. You do not appear to actually be HELPING anything, except your own ego. Try adopting a more REALISTIC approach to your activism and more people would give you credibility.

 

When you were out there at the malls this weekend did you consider the fossil fuels expended in getting that cheap Chinese crap to your department stores? It's not only cars that expend these fuels and CO2 to environment. Look at the ships and planes,the factories in China that produce the crap, they use more than the average household. And why not consider those being used to expand and carry on this war.

 

You are the one who is ignoring realities.

The production and maintenance of cars, and the infrastructures they require,
roads (and bridges, etc.) and fuel, is exacting a horrendous toll on the global
environment.

It also necessitates the mass exploitation of poor people around the
world to indirectly subsidize it, and is largely responsible for the crippling national
debt of this country.

It takes about a person-life of labor to create a single car and its share
of the road and fuel infrastructures.

(see Zimmerman's "The End of the Road")

Owning a car, or using one regularly, means that you are producing far
less than you consume. It is extreme elitism from a global perspective.

Wars are fought to maintain the priveleges of the very small percentage of
people on the planet who own cars. That's mass murder.

Apparently, you think that this is perfectly fine and 'just the way life is'.

It isn't. It's a lifestyle choice, one of countless alternatives.

The reason we don't have good mass transportation in this
country is because of people like you, who claim to be
environmentalists and then rationalize using the most Earth-destructive
technologies that exist.

Nice to hear from you again, earthsmother.

You accused me of being "unneighborly" in another post.

That doesn't even begin to cover the situation.

I am your ENEMY. Psuedo-progressive elitists like you are the
biggest impediment to real progress who exist on the planet.

Because you, and everyone like you, claim to be effectively
involved in leading us to successfully meeting the awesome
challenges that face us.

But none of your supposed 'solutions' do anything but make
things worse, because you have no intention of giving up
your priveleged lifestyles.

And they can't exist without the System going on just like
it is.

And it is scores of millions of people who live like you who
are responsible, in large part, for the environmental crisis in the first place.
And the wars, and the widespread abject poverty.

LIttlefoot

 

And what do you bring to the table to HELP? You are my ENEMY??? For what purpose?

I too feel that humans are the biggest threat to the earth. "Civilized" humans are users and polluters, spoiled babies. They are violent natured and egocentric. It makes one wonder how humans ever came as far down this particular path of destruction as they have. By all rights, humans never should have evolved at all, but should have become extinct as a species due to their stupidity. I could go on, but the fact is, we ARE human, and we live with other humans and no matter WHAT goals or ends you are seeking, nobody simply snaps their fingers and makes enormous change without something like a nuclear bomb... And so, this being the case, if you desire to make the earth a better place, you must work WITH WHAT IS AVAILABLE. Change happens in steps. SOMEONE must figure out what steps to make towards the goal, and EXPECT it to take a long while. Positive steps HELP, no matter how small. A person who is AWARE and THINKING will do whatever they can to improve the situation. THAT IS ALL THEY CAN DO. You can preach all you want about how horrible things are (we already know) and how you think you are doing all the correct things (for you), but you'll NEVER convince anyone of anything if you refuse to look at realities. If you simply REMOVE yourself from the "system" that's fine for YOU. But there are an awful LOT of people out there BESIDES you, and they can not ALL be expected to live as YOU do. And that does not make them "bad" or "evil" or anything but HUMANS living in a certain society on a certain earth with certain issues we MUST deal with. One step at a time. It took a long time for humans to get this messed up. If you are interested in improvement in the world condition, unless you wish for humans to simply be wiped off the earth without harming anything else, then you MUST work within the REALITIES of the world, or run away and contribute nothing. So, what are you ACTUALLY bringing to the table other than negativity and impossibilities?

 

I have already answered that question. Do you ever do anything but
play games?

No. Only members of this civilization are a threat to the Earth. And
we are the only threat to the Earth. There are scores of millions of
people around the world who live completely independepently of
this civilzation and they are not a threat to the Earth.

Always, you choose to believe whatever will allow you to rationalize going
on living as you are.

There are thousands of people, perhaps more, hopefully a lot more, who have
left this civilization behind. They didn't need a nuclear bomb. They didn't even
need guns.

It isn't.

That's what the people I know and work with (or for) have done. They used their
minds and their bodies. Nothing else is necessary.

I've had enough of your self-serving and dishonest ramblings. Again. And
have deleted the rest here without reading it. Again.

There are people who have already left this failed socio-economic experiment
behind. They recruit from the general population (I have nothing to do with
that side of things) but they only approach people who live progressive lifestyles.
Or are honestly trying to.

That's why someone like you doesn't know about them.

The first and most basic requirement is to be an herby. Someone who
only eats plants.

That's something that can't be faked. The smell of a person who eats even
small amounts of animal foods gives them away.

Yes, I realize that you are scandalized by the idea of anyone requiring
anything but hot air in order to be considered for membership in their
group, but you'll just have to live with it.

You are promoting the myth that this is a good system being mismanaged
and that if we'd just let the enlightened people you choose run it that
everything would be all right.

And who do you choose? Elitist supermaterialists who consume a 100
times more than they would be producing if they did anything but run
their mouths, which they don't.

And you expect us to believe that they are going to make changes that
will result in them losing their priveleged lifestyles?

Save it for the peasants.

When this System collapses, you and your buddies will have to turn to
my friends, because they are the only ones that know how to live a
comfortable life without this cilivization.

I can hardly wait to see your face when you learn that you will only be
eating plants and that you will have to earn your keep with the labors
of your body or you will not be allowed to live with us.

I say "us", because when things start to get really bad here, I will be
joining them.

I find it hard to believe that you think you can convince me that you
are doing anything remotely progressive.

But apparently you do.

Or is it that you are trying to convince yourself?

LIttlefoot

"The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a
comfortable living from a small piece of land."

-- Abraham Lincoln

 

Your true colors come out at last. That didn't take very long now did it? From all indications it would seem I am talking to a total nut job. Narcissism. Delusions of grandieur. Antisocial behavior. Whatever. You and your little elite "group" will be the first down if it comes to all that. Why, because you can't CO-OPERATE. With anyone. You are too good. Your cult has too many rules and regulations. It's too much of a dictatorship. Sorry. I'm not a "joiner" of extra-special cults. I'm not a follower at all. A team player, yes. I'm no longer interested in what you have to say, as you have shown yourself to be nothing more than an angry fanatic. I'm not interested in what you are selling. Sorry.

 

Ooooh. Nows she's really mad. Lucky for me she's a talker instead of
a doer.

The simple fact is that someone living an Earth-friendly lifestyle cannot live
like you choose to live.

You pay corporations to trash the Earth someplace far away to provide you
with most of what you consume.. They don't have this option.

There isn't anything particularly unusual about the villages of my friends.
Just a group of homes and workshops and a community center surrounded
by gardens and forests. They use hand tools. They make things and
grow things and harvest things from the forest. And play music and dance
and tell stories and workout in the gym and attend classes of various kinds.

Pretty ordinary. The only thing that makes them unusual is that they make
everything they consume and they do it without harming the ecosystem they
live in at all.

And the villages are camouflaged from they eyes of members of your
civilzation. This is no big deal. They don't go to town and
they don't have any domestic animals or machines and don't use any
electricity.

Obviously, there can't be anyone living there. Why bother even checking?

LIttlefoot

"The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a
comfortable living from a small piece of land."

-- Abraham Lincoln

 

Littlefoot, you have no idea how I live. You don't know me. You rarely actually read my posts other than to look for ways to put me down. I don't need to defend myself against you. You are a fool. You go around making random strangers your enemy. You want us to believe you belong to some kind of super secret closed society. One that you believe is easily accessable enough that ANYONE anywhere, if they were "cool" enough and lived in your "certain" way could find them, and that they would ultimately be the ONLY saviors in the event of catastrophy... That's a pretty big group don't you think? I think you are right, we would be enemies, you would make it so.

Honey, I don't HAVE to get mad. I'm laughing too hard to get mad. I've been playing with you, yes. I realized from the beginning there was something wrong with you. I worked at you until the truth finally came out. Don't like it? Then don't be such an ass. Lot of folks are not as discriminating as I am and seeing how I AM into making this world a BETTER place, and I wish to HELP people to help themselves, then I guess SOMEONE has to help sort out the men from the boys.

I've been around these forums for several years and I bet folks who are familiar with me KNOW I'm REAL, and I don't lie. They ALSO know that when I run into someone who AIN'T RIGHT, I'll call 'em out and let them show who they really are. And I've done that to you.
I don't know what super secret and oh-so-special clan you belong to, but if you are any indication then I would say it is EVIL and people would be far better off staying the hell away from it. And you even admit they are looking for recruits. Oh, yea, but you don't DO that part... What part ARE you doing, then? Because you are doing it here and it's BULLSHIT and you should go back to what ever cave you crawled out of.

Hey if you all live that way, good for you. But why does that make you so much BETTER than everyone else. You refuse to accept that not EVERYONE CAN live like you do. AND, if it's all so great and perfect and better than anyone elses lifestyle, the WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING ON A COMPUTER EVERY DAY??? And you are a LIFETIME SUPPORTER? Did you think that would keep you safe from being banned eventually? You and your so called "friends" are SCARED of the world, not contributing. You are HIDING, while at the same time trying to find RECRUITS. Recruits for WHAT? One would think in a closed society like "yours" it would be better to NOT go out looking for outsiders to join.... What are the MOTIVES?

The way you describe your (hypocritical) lifestyle, one would THINK you had it made, but your attitude RUINS it. Your descriptions bring visions of si-fi movies I have seen where those priviledged individuals living in the hidden utopian communities were either SLAVES and PRISONERS to their CULT LEADERS, or they were ALIENS (and NOT just the illegal kind).

To everybody else, sorry about all this, but I'm not one to simply sit by and let some evil troll hijack perfectly good threads and possible lead on some nieve soul who can't see you for what you are. Now, carry on, I love all of you. Oh yea, and by the way. IF the world was screwed and we all had to live a totally survival lifestyle, when you are STARVING because you are only allowed to eat certain things, come look me up, I'd be glad to feed you if you'll STOP being such a pain in the ass.

 

I'll ignore the bickering here to make a statement. Some of us use internal combustion engine vehicles to do good for our communities. It doesn't relieve the stress placed on the environment but it does reduce some of the local human suffering that has become a part of modern life. Outside of that, I use my vehicle very little if at all for personal use. I also have a small boat that is powered by the wind and nothing more.

So don't throw everyone who drives into a bag and mark it "bad".

 

The mining and manufacture of hundreds of millions of cars, and their fuel
and the roads and buildings and parking spaces they need are doing very
serious harm to this planet.

Wars, large and small, are fought over the resources necesary to make the
car lifestyle possible.

Poor people around the world are exploited to subsidize them and suffer from
the impacts on the environment of the industries involved.

Why is that you think you can be an active participant in things like that
and be exempt from any blame?

Littlefoot

 

earthmother (who isn't any such thing) wrote:

"Littlefoot, you have no idea how I live. You don't know me."

I know that you claim to be boycotting cars yet own one and use it regularly.

I know these things because you posted them right here.

And it's apparent that you actually expected people here to believe that you
are boycotting cars.

Now, you have just posted another obvious falsehood that you
expect people to believe.

I also know that you won't be wasting any more of my time.

Good-bye.


Littlefoot

 

Whew, glad that's over with. So, like I was saying, we have to work within our framework. Improvements in environmental policies, the government's and our own personal ones, will come slowly, and thats a fact. But at least more and more people are becoming aware of the problems and better alternatives are coming. Whether we can "save the earth" and "save humanity" remains to be seen. It may not be possible. But if everyone did their part to the best of their ability and put great attention into not WASTING anything, things are bound to improve environmentally.

OR we could run to the woods and escape the system, while it rots all around us until NOBODY can live in the filth, including those of us who tried so hard to escape.

Let's theoretically say we wanted to live in a "hidden" village, not unlike Littlefoot's, and have nothing whatsoever to do with modern civilization. This means we are not going to own land and so we must either stay on PRIVATELY OWNED land or public land. Being hidden and secret would not be easy and we would probably have to squat and move frequently. The weather would be another thing. We wouldn't be able to have any permanent shelters, and they'd all have to be constructed with materials at hand. So, we might want to go SOUTH. South America perhaps. Of course then we would have to convince the OTHER hidden tribes to allow our presence there... OR we could stay more north and have to work much harder to keep warm and dry and fed.

We couldn't go to ANY store for anything. (It would be handy to figure out a way to eliminate our social security numbers and birth records...) And because we were not participating in civilization in any way, we would either wear skins, or go naked, or weave our own fabrics. But if we tried to be total vegetarians than we probably don't kill for hides either. And if we don't raise any domestic animals, we probably don't have the means to weave our own cloth. So I guess we'd have to go nude... And we'd spend an awful lot of time hunting for food and firewood. And because we were so determined to live outside of civilization, if one of us has a medical emergency, we will need to forgo modern medicine and possibly die, on principal. Of course we would not be using computers and modern technical gadgets either.

OR we could just be realistic and be as AWARE as we can be of our polluting, the trash we make, the air we breathe, and the space we take up in the world, and then do everything we are capable of to help change the bad habits and live as good and balanced a life as we can. It's all anyone can do.