Brexit

I get you drift of course my friend.
Actually I do think you are a very nice Man really, if just a little deluded.
I just beg to differ with you over Brexit, and the subject is quite toxic with family and friends falling out over it all the time.
Thank goodness you and i have not!

 

Booze

I thought you were not reading my posts, my friend?

And yes you did apologise for calling me a traitor LOL

But again

Londonstan

I heard that ‘joke’ first from an openly racist white supremacist – he said he called London that because it was full of ‘pakis’ - like Pakistan.

As pointed out the EU has no control over immigration from Pakistan that is purely a UK matter.

What do you mean what ‘British culture’ are you talking about and in what way has it changed?

Well first if you are talking of Asians (as the racist trope Londonstan seems to indicate) and the mention of Lewisham which has a high Asian and black population - that has nothing to do with the EU, so this is a side question

Most of the brown and black people living in the UK are British citizens, they are British – so what are you going to do with them, they are already here?

 

Please think on this Bulby and others!:

We heard all the same scare stories about not joining the Euro.
They were wrong!
We heard all the same scare stories about voting Leave.
They were wrong!
We're hearing the same stories about No Deal....
When will they learn the British people won't be cowed by Project Fear?

 

How do think BREXIT was sold?

 

Not as well as it could have been by 'remainer' Theresa May and her useless by and large 'remainer' government granite.
But now Nigel Farage and The Brexit Party are up and running and in the lead regarding the latest opinion polls, then it is is now getting 'sold' as you put it.
Very well indeed!

 

Booze

Jingoistic rhetoric and propaganda

You can wave the flag all you want to distract from the harm you wish to inflict on the country but that harm will still happen.

The question is why you seem to want that harm so much?

Anyway to repeat again

But basically project fear came true – remember before the referendum vote all the leavers said Brexit would be great and wonderful, ther would be a Brexit bonus, more money for the NHS, an end to austerity the sunny upland and having our cake and eating it

Well they all the leavers seem to have changed their minds, all have agreed that it is going to cause pain, some claim (without explaining why) that it will only be short term but others think it might take a generation or longer.

Remember that any remainer that said any warning about the possibility of a downside to Brexit was labelled a scaremonger of so called project fear.

Look around companies are quietly leaving and closing down, people like Ford, Nissan and British Steel might not want to come right out and blame Brexit, why would they they’d get attacked by the leaver press but from what I’ve heard they all admit it is.

And virtually every analyst and economist thinks that a soft Brexit will be bad in short medium and long term but a hard Brexit like you want will make things a lot, lot worse.

I’ve explained all this many times and you don’t seem able to refute it in any rational way.

 

Booze

And I’m sure I’m not the only one that has noticed you are not even trying to refute the charge that you are motivated by racism.

I’m not saying you are it’s just you say things that seem to indicate you are

Londonstan – I heard that ‘joke’ first from an openly racist white supremacist – he said he called London that because it was full of ‘pakis’ - like Pakistan.

As pointed out the EU has no control over immigration from Pakistan that is purely a UK matter.

What do you mean what ‘British culture’ are you talking about?

In what way has it changed?

Well first if you are talking of Asians as the racist trope ‘Londonstan’ seems to indicate and the mention of Lewisham which has a high Asian and black population that has nothing to do with the EU.

Most of the brown and black people living in the UK are British citizens, they are British – so what are you going to do with them, they are already here?

I mean if the brown and black people of Lewisham and Londonstan are what you see as the problem what do you want to do with them?

 

So what are the true motivations for some leavers?

I mean it’s not the EU – leavers shout a lot but they have no arguments or counter argument just a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.

But there does seem to be an undercurrent that colours at least some leaver’s views of the EU which while having nothing to do with the EU.

It’s about ‘British identity’ and ‘British culture’ and how they think it under attack by dark forces.

Which was highlighted for me by a recent post in which a leaver called London by the well-known racist/bigoted nickname of Londonstan (sometime Londonistan).

In the same post he mention visiting places with high levels of Asian and black populations and thinking to himself ‘What bastard country am I in’

Another leaver talked of his anger at seeing a polish shop in his town and yet another mentioned the Rivers of Blood speech my Enoch Powell (with its call to repatriate non-white migrants to save and for the safety of the white races of Britain, otherwise "In this country in 15 or 20 years' time the black man will have the whip hand over the white man") a post that was liked by other leavers.

This seems to imply that for some of the leavers at least there is a feeling that by leaving the EU it is a step toward turning the clocks back so ‘their’ country can be restored.

This would all seem to indicate that this isn’t about the worth or otherwise of been a member of the EU it is something more primal and irrational.

And they can’t just come on with what they mean by ‘British identity’ and ‘British culture’ oh they can whistle and they can wink, (for example Booze follows up his moan about Asian and black Lewisham with ‘I could go on but I fink you get me drift’) but at least at the moment they can’t seem to bring themselves to be open and honest.

So to those leavers be honest and explain what you mean by ‘British identity’ and ‘British culture’ and how you would ‘restore’ it?

 

Bulby (hug) my friend.
With great respect.
Please refer to my post 1160.
Refer to it, inwardly digest it and memorise it.
Thanking you in anticipation.

Cheers.

Have a nice day.

Kenny

 

Booze

But you promised in post 1160 that were not going to read my post but you still are.

LOL maybe it is you that needs to digest and memorise it?

 

In post 1160 booze says

Well in a similar way I have called out Booze for seemingly been motivated by racism in his views, I hope everyone is noticing how very reluctant he seem to address that charge or defend himself from it.

Maybe a spade a spade.

 

Booze

So your counter-argument to my racist charge is to call me a poo, so mature of you, I’m sure all your little friends in kindergarten will be so pleased.

Well let’s try something simpler

OK so you went to a mainly Asian and Black area of London and thought to yourself ‘What bastard country am I in’

And that is one of your reasons for leaving the EU

Why?

 

Balbus.

Yes I do apologise for making such a childish silly remark there.
I have deleted them.

One of my many many many many many reasons for wanting to leave the EU is that it allows for far too much immigration.
Because of this, as an indigenous population we have lost far too much of our identity and core values.
When all these immigrants came here and took our jobs and our housing and our social services etc. etc. etc. they should have come here with an attitude of:

When In Rome.
Do as the Romans Do.

That hasn't happened.

Far too many of them don't even speak English, and they live in their own ghettos and will not mix with us, or entertain our core BRITISH values.
That is as much as I am prepared to say, so please do not set me another lot of annoying questions as I will not answer.

I have said enough already if you care to read through ALL of my rather enthralling posts!

Cheers.

 

Booze

First I’d say from reading your post there don’t seem to be that many reasons and all have been covered and found wanting it’s just that you ignore the criticisms of them.

But AGAIN which immigrants are you talking about?

And how did the EU allow ‘far too much immigration’ I mean it allows freedom of movement of EU citizens but -

[1] The UK has means of controlling that under the Free Movement Directive

“Where admission is permitted, an EU citizen may remain in the UK for up to three months from the date of entry, provided they do not become a burden on the social assistance system of the UK. If an EU citizen does not meet one of the requirements for residence set out in the Directive [employed, self-employed, self-sufficient, student] then they will not have a right to reside in the UK and may be removed.”

[2] Many people from around the EU come here to work and when the work is over they move back to their own country

I’ve done that I’ve lived and worked in Europe but I came back to live in the UK.

So who are the immigrants that you are talking about?

 

Booze

You believe that people coming here from the EU are somehow destroying British identity and values, can you explain how?

Who do you call the ‘indigenous population’ can you describe them?

Can you describe the ‘British identity’?

What are ‘British values’ please describe them?

 

Booze

As explained that is a myth it is something pushed out by right wing pundits to misdirect people from the real blame which is right wing policies

The average European migrant arriving in the UK in 2016 will contribute £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits over their time spent in the UK (assuming a balanced national budget), and the average non-European migrant will make a positive net contribution of £28,000 while living here. By comparison, the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution in this scenario is zero.

This has been explained to you and you don’t dispute it in any rational way.

Brexit is going to have a negative impact on jobs, housing, social services and the NHS and those right wingers pushing for leaving are neoliberals that want to dismantle the welfare state and privatise the NHS.

 

Booze

To integrate you need something to be integrated into so you would first have to describe what a British identity or culture actually is.

I mentioned that poster I saw –

Being British is about driving a German car to an Irish pub for a Belgian beer, then traveling home, grabbing an Indian curry or a Turkish kebab on the way, to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American shows on a Japanese TV.

I love my country and one of the things I love about it is its tolerance and diversity.

Anyway the next question I have for you would be – How would you bring about the integration you want?

 

Booze

English is the major language of Britain but also widely used in the whole of Europe.

English is the most commonly spoken foreign language in 19 out of 25 European Union countries (excluding the UK and Ireland) In the EU25, working knowledge of English as a foreign language is clearly leading at 38%, followed by German and French (at 14% each), Russian and Spanish (at 6% each), and Italian (3%).

In the UK English is spoken by 98% of the population but it is not the official language of the UK, actually I think only Welsh is an official language (and that in Wales) then there is also Irish and Scottish Gaelic, but then like most places there will be secondary languages.

English itself is an amalgam, it’s got Latin, German, Scandinavian French, Indian influences, unlike the French we don’t police our language to keep it ‘pure’ we let it adapt.

We already have English as a core part of the educational curriculum and the citizenship test, but are you saying that we should forbid people speaking any other language?

I lived in France I spoke French when I needed to but I spoke English with my English friends, when I was working in Greece I only had a smidgen of Greek and spoke English most of the time even with Greek people who usually had very good English.

 

Booze

EU people are living in ghettos and will not mix?

What people are you talking about, you mentioned Lewisham but actually the people there are mainly Asian and afro-Caribbean not non-British Europeans?

Migrants usually go to cheap places to live, there used to be Irish areas of towns and cities (ghettoes) there still is a ‘China town’ in the centre of London. There is often to do with them been inexpensive but also due to hostility - in living memory there were signs for room vacancies that had added to them ‘no blacks, no dogs and no Irish’

What are the British values you are talking about?