Brexit

VG

Can you please explain this please who are ‘they’ we were talking about private investment so what do you mean about ‘the UK's ridiculous debt’?

The pound is at a low point but since we import more than we export it means many things are more expensive,

As to exports it is not so rosey as some hoped it would be

‘through the fall in the pound, the UK started pricing its exports much more cheaply (in terms of dollars), but found few extra buyers, other than those we would have already expected, so the volume of exports moved in line with trade between our neighbours, but they were worth less due to the fall in sterling...

Further, we argue that, since a significant amount of Britain’s exports are used to buy imports, what really matters is the value in terms of the currencies of our trading partners. If British exports sold can buy fewer imports, that translates to falling living standards at home, as imported goods rise faster in price than wages. Hence, Britain has lost a significant share in global markets (in terms of value) due to the uncertainties around Brexit, and is already poorer as a result.

Brexit has already hurt EU and non-EU exports by up to 13% – new research

The thing is that most of the newspaper media in the UK is wealth owned, right wing and pro-brexit.

These are basically hiding the harm Brexit is doing and could do by simply not reporting it or smothering it under opinion.

It’s not really the ‘media’ that is making the loudest warnings about Brexit and especially a hard Brexit it is actually the government () business federations, trade unionists, companies and experts in several fields.

Many haven’t left yet but have made plans to do so

These are the companies cutting UK jobs and leaving the UK ahead of Brexit

Again what debt are you taking about?

If you are talking government debt it is actually the leavers in Parliament that are planning to massively balloon that debt by borrowing to pay for a election spending spree while promising huge tax cuts to the wealthy that will reduce government income and promising large sums to mitigate against the adverse effects of Brexit (like buying up all the meat farmers produce that currently goes to the EU).

 

First link is a year old

2nd link contains the sentence "dozens of companies", hardly representative

Lolz, this paragraph is why you dont answer many questions. And you have a go at leavers for not having a clue

 

As for total UK debt, I could pull excel links from the ONS site, but that gets messy

The 2017 figures from this page

UK debt could total £6.7 trillion by 2023, rising to nearly 260% of GDP

Lists UK private debt as 3.6 trillion pounds, public debt at 1.5 trillion pounds. Over 5 trillion pounds in 2017. Probably around 5.5 trillion now

 

VG

Ok so you support a right wing neoliberal led hard Brexit because of a financial crash from 10 years ago that was brought about by right wing neoliberal policies and ideas?

What did that have to do with the EU?

Sorry VG but you seem all over the place.

Let’s try and get back to some basics – why do you think a hard Brexit will be good for the UK economy?

 

Facepalm, theres that word again

Neoliberal

We going to go ten pages again with me trying to get you to understand what neoliberal and austerity means?

Neoliberalism - tending towards free market capitalism

Your government bailed out the Bank of Scotland in particular because it feared rioting in the streets if people couldnt access their money - for social reasons. The opposite of Capitalist reasons. The Bank of Scotland almost went under because like all shit banks around the world it was lending too easily to people that couldnt afford it - which would be tending away from evil greedy capitalism, as it was giving poor people money

As for hard vs soft brexit, after hearing "but since we import more than we export it means many things are more expensive" , think Im going need you to tell us what YOU think a hard brexit means, in terms of markets that is, forget about any border control stuff

 

VG

I’m quite happy to go into it again you were clearly out of your depth the last time, I mean you went off rambling about fool’s gold at one point with no explanation, it was rather embarrassing.

But have you done the research I suggested how about the book I thought you should read A brief history of neoliberalism by David Harvey did you?

First I think you mean the Royal Bank of Scotland?

Ok - so what do you mean by this statement? What would have been Capitalist reasons (and why the capital C)?

This makes me think you don’t know that much about the subject. Can you explain in more detail why the RBS fell?

So you don’t know? I mean this is a tactic you have used before trying to get someone else to explain something because you don’t have a clue about it but wish to pretend you do (neoliberalism is a case in point).

 

So, none of you know. Thread is 64 pages long, a lot of remainers criticizing leavers. And none of you actually know what Brexit is.
You dont have the confidence to give us your version

I talk about UKs ridiculous debt, and you are like what debt are you talking about.
How the hell are you not aware of that?

 

Well said Vanilla.
Another thing these people know nothing about is this...

DEMOCRACY!
Remember that you Remoaners?
Over 17 Million people voted to leave the EU.
We WON.
Leave means Leave.
Deal or no deal.
No deal is better than a bad deal.
And the deal May came back with WAS a bad deal.
Now have you got that?
Good.
So now perhaps you will shut up, honour the referendum, and stop talking nonsensical ass hole shite.

Cheers!

 

So lets stick to facts:





The UK's EU membership fee

So that net contribution seems to have doubled in the last decade for some reason

Around the same time housing prices and household debt has skyrocketed

 

Someone else mentioned how much you spend on transport, something that has an immediate return; people getting to their jobs, is a necessity


How are your taxes spent and collected?

Transport budget of £35billion. Housing budget of £31 billion

Government repaying debt at £42 billion for one year

So at a time when people cant afford to live in london, have mounting debts if they do so, or spend 2 hours to get to work.

That £8 billion net payment to the EU represents 25% of the housing budget for the entire country

Income from VAT also seems extraordinary £145 billion. A preposterous 20% sales tax, which becomes a double whammy if people cant pay off their credit cards which themselves are usually 20%, which then just compounds over time. VAT in the US, depending on the state is less than half that, 7.5%, Australia its 10%. Most EU countries the sales tax is up around ridiculous levels near 20%

Now one could argue you could cut spending in other areas like defense, but that is also partially cutting jobs.

Still doesnt seem to be any rationale explanation as to why that net contribution to the EU has doubled in the last decade

 

Divorce Bill is around the £40 billion mark, some of that being pension payments to UK workers anyway, most of it is contributions to infrastructure projects

What doesnt seem to be mentioned in the press however is that the UK has £150 million in EU assets, mainly cash

 

UK's top trading partners (UK exporting)

1. United States: US$65.3 billion (13.4% of total UK exports)
2. Germany: $46.7 billion (9.6%)
3. Netherlands: $33.1 billion (6.8%)
4. France: $31.9 billion (6.5%)
5. Ireland: $28.2 billion (5.8%)
6. China: $27.7 billion (5.7%)
7. Switzerland: $25.6 billion (5.3%)
8. Belgium: $18.9 billion (3.9%)
9. Italy: $14 billion (2.9%)
10. Spain: $13.9 billion (2.9%)
11. Turkey: $13.7 billion (2.8%)
12. Hong Kong: $10.3 billion (2.1%)
13. United Arab Emirates: $10.1 billion (2.1%)
14. Japan: $8.4 billion (1.7%)
15. South Korea: $7.8 billion (1.6%)

United Kingdom’s Top Trading Partners

 

As far as net monetary contributions, part of any union is the support of those member needing an economic helping hand. I have been to both Ireland and Portugal and saw a lot EU money at work. As an economist this looked a really effective investment. The alternative is a perpetual state of economic underdevelopment. A bad deal for all.
I have lived in many different states and heard the argument when I lived in Wealthy states. Often they were wealthy at the expense of the less developed but resource rich states. And it changes over time. I lived in Michigan during the high flying days of the auto industry but now the states needs rebooting for the21st century economy.
It is really unfortunate that the UK is now battered by the same wave of ignorance based right wing politics as the US. So what will Trump and Johnson say when the idiocracy creates a shambles?

 

"As an economist"

So let me get this straight, "As an economist" you went on holiday one time, saw something being built in Portugal, and that gives you scope on the equity of all EU infrastructure projects.

Now here is the argument the rest of the world is asking themselves; why Portugal, why not Ethopia? Or any of the 150 countries in the world poorer than Portugal

You dont have to be a member of the EU to have a foreign aid budget, or increase that foreign aid budget

"It is really unfortunate that the UK is now battered by the same wave of ignorance based right wing politics as the US"

To me, the EU looks like a caucasians only club, where ironically Germany gets a better deal than anyone else. A union that was never going to allow the African countries in because they dont have enough stuff. Highly hypocritical

 

Booze

We have been through all those and in EVERY case you have been unable to address the criticisms of them – I mean don’t you think it sad that you base your life on hollow slogans that you can’t even defend from criticism.

 

VG

OH FOR FUCK SAKE – READ THE FUCKING POSTS

We have been through the EU Budget several times in this thread TO REPEAT -

As for paying for EU membership well to repeat

I believe it cost somewhere close to 9 billion

But let’s put that in context - we spend:

145 billion on health

45 billion on defence

29 billion on transport

And 13 billion on overseas aid

We also contribute less (per head of population) than some other EU countries such as Germany.

For the 9 billion we get all the advantages of free trade with the EU members and with the EU trade deals with none EU countries along with a say in the regulations and policies set by the EU (unlike say Norway).

Some have put a figure of roughly £31bn-£92bn per year as the best estimate we have in terms of the additional value created to the UK economy through trade as a result of EU membership.

 

VG

And what has that got to do with the EU – the problems we have now with the rail network are down to dad neoliberal policies and ideas forced on it over many years.

Sorry mate but you are all over the place pumping out a lot of crap but addressing nothing – you refuse to answer questions and refuse to reply to criticism.

Have you not noticed that virtually everything you say falls apart so you have to abandon it and move on to some new crap argument?

 

VG

Sorry but can’t you see how misleading you are being or do you just not understand just how dumb this argument is?

I’ll explain -

Germany – France – Ireland – Netherlands – Belgium – Italy and others European states are in the EU

So have to be calculated together

In the same way that you are grouping trade with all the 50 state of the USA together

We don’t calculate what our trade is with each separate US state like California X%, New York Y% or Arizona Z% we say express it as US 13.4%

So just for those 6 states you mentioned of the EU that would be 35.5% way beyond the 13.4% trade we have with ALL 50 states of the USA.

I believe that the share of UK exports accounted for by ALL the states in the EU in 2017 was around 45%.

And we are at this time a member of the EU which makes trade in the EU easier.

So basically near half of our trade is with the rest of the EU which at the moment is tariff free and with seamless boarders any Brexit will make that situation worse causing disruption to trade which will have a knock of effect on the UK economy.

So again - why do you think a Brexit especially a hard Brexit will be good for the UK economy?

 

VG

Once again you refuse to answer questions or address the criticisms of your ideas and once again go off on tangents to bring up things that have been covered before or make no sense

Why can't you be honest?

If you were going to buy a car and one person has the MOT, the log book and can answer all your questions about it and another seller has none of the paperwork and is misleading and refuses to answer any of your questions you have about the car – which car would you most likely buy?

 

Doesnt matter how many times you swear, or say read the posts, still doesnt make your posts correct. Leave brexit and you probably end up cutting a bettter trading deal with you, and dont pretend you are sure otherwise. Trade with non eu countries, they at the moment are slapped with tariffs and have to try sell their products in a country with a 20% sales tax.

One word in that post of yours- Norway, why do you think they do it the way they do