Brexit

I agree Nicola Sturgeon of the SNP has been pretty quiet of late. I think she is waiting for the opportune moment until the UK leaves the EEC and will then start pressing for another referendum for Scotland to become independent . By then she will then have the necessary ammunition to start stirring things up . I am not sure if a weak UK Government will work in her favour or not. No matter who wins the next UK General Election , they will be pretty weak with a slim majority IMO.

 

VG

What the fuck are you talking about man…what has this got to do with Brexit?

So are you saying that the problem is the English and English Nationalism?

But it was mainly the English that voted for Brexit and its mainly English Nationalists that seem to be pushing for a hard Brexit, and you are in favour of having a hard Brexit.

As to wealth inequality in the UK we’ve been through that and that it is mainly down to right wing neoliberal policies and ideas that advantage the advantaged while making the lives of the more disadvantaged harsher, through cuts to public services and running down the manufacturing base of the country that has effected many regional areas badly.

As to British history, what research have you actually done because it seems to me you know very little about it - can you say what books on British history you have read, any book on history?

 

Arlene Foster, the leader of the right wing (anti-gay and religious) Democratic Unionist Party

The former first minister Arlene Foster appeared at a public inquiry this week to rebuff accusations that she was to blame for a fiasco which led to the collapse Northern Ireland’s power-sharing government, and which may cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of pounds.

“I’m accountable but I’m not responsible,” Foster said when asked about a special adviser’s possible criminal conduct.

Under questioning Foster, a lawyer, sought refuge in carefully phrased qualifiers – “I stand to be corrected … it’s my understanding” – to distance herself from disastrous decisions which led to the collapse of the DUP’s power-sharing with Sinn Féin in 2017, leaving a power vacuum at Stormont.

It was a cool, controlled performance in front of Sir Patrick Coghlin, a retired court of appeal judge who is chairing the inquiry, and probably helped avert fresh calls for her resignation. However, the testimonies of other DUP officials revealed dysfunction at the heart of the party and Northern Ireland’s government.

Foster and other then ministers barely read important documents, if at all; civil servants cut corners and ignored signs of problems; unelected special advisers essentially ran Stormont and in some cases helped relatives access – arguably loot – public funds.

Cash-for-ash fiasco: Northern Ireland's Enron on Craggy Island

 

No dude, you are the one that used the word nationalism

And there is that idiotic phrase again "right wing neoliberal" ...to differentiate from all the left wing neoliberals???

"We" havent been through everything, all I ever get from you is this junior high school level stuff - "running down the manufacturing base"

A quick Balbus impression:

All leavers are racist.
Tories are cunts.
Because Thatcher thats why.
Re-read my posts where I say neoliberal 5 times
Rah rah rah grrrr

 

VG

So do you know what you were trying to say?

Oh for fuck sake you really are ill informed, if you had read my posts you would understand so why not read the posts?

Have you done any research on the subject (beyond looking up the word neoliberal on a online dictionary?

Have you read any of the books I’ve suggested? Have you read the other posts and thread that have been mentioned?

See what I mean about you not reading stuff

No as I‘ve said I don’t think all leavers are racists

Ask I’ve pointed out t don’t think all Tories are ‘cunts’ (although I’ve meet some that are).

Do you actually understand the significance of Margret Thatcher in the rise of neoliberalism in the UK?

I keep wishing you would read the posts so you didn’t keep getting so many things so wrong. It seems like you want to remain so badly and willfully ill informed.

 

You did see the 10 years later part right?

 

Oh, how cute

You heard Vlad talk about Arlene Foster, so then decided to google her name

 

VG

Sorry mate but what’s wrong with you – is it projection, because you are so ill informed you think everyone is as ignorant as you are?

Look the whole Arlene/DUP scandal is old news and not everyone knows about it so I though a little background might help

But for you its some big thing about me been soooooo ignorant, why are you doing that, what’s the point, what do you think you gain?

 

Thankyou very much for that

That one sentence undermines everything else you have said in this thread

According to Balbus everything that is wrong with the UK today can be blamed on "right wing neoliberalism", (i will borrow that phrase in case anyone out there gets them mixed up with all the left wingers trying to privatize everything )

But according to Balbus that didnt start until Thatcher in 1979, 2 and 1/2 centuries after de Gournay

Ergo: 22 years in the EEC did nothing to stop changes Thatcher made, and 26 years in the EU since 93 have done nothing to reverse them

 

As you said, its old news, didnt really have any relevance to their current leverage, so it was kind of obvious it was the result of a "what did arlene foster do wrong?" kind of google search

 

VG

Again it’s hard to try and piece together what you are saying or want to say.

In what way does the sentence undermines everything I’ve said in this thread?

Even reading you explanation I’m still not sure what you are accusing me of.

That there was ‘free market’ based economic thinking before the rise of neoliberalism well duh - of course neoliberalism is just a new iteration of some older ideas (as the name implies). But as has been explained before economics thinking has not remained static other ideas have grown like socialist based ideas and those around Keynesianism and people are working on other economic thinking based around sustainability and to deal with a workless society.

As to the Conservatives and New labour been able to pursue neoliberal based policies while been in what you call the ‘socialist’ EU doesn’t that show that the EU doesn’t control the UK which is one of the reasons why leavers say we have to leave to 'take back control' so doesn't that undermine the Brexit arguement?

Please can you read the posts and then think through what you want to say before you post?

 

(Sigh !!!) - words fail me. You seem so politically naieve that its a waste of mine and Balbus's time to debate a complex issue with you when you have so little understanding of politics.

 

The part you bolded was me making fun of Balbus prefixing neoliberal with right wing. I wasnt saying left wing neoliberals are a thing

....but then you bolded it, kind of now outing yourself

You understand?




And I will copy and paste the way you bolded it so it doesnt disappear.......





"Vanilla Gorilla said: ↑
Thankyou very much for that

That one sentence undermines everything else you have said in this thread

According to Balbus everything that is wrong with the UK today can be blamed on "right wing neoliberalism", (i will borrow that phrase in case anyone out there gets them mixed up with all the left wingers trying to privatize everything ) ???

But according to Balbus that didnt start until Thatcher in 1979, 2 and 1/2 centuries after de Gournay

Ergo: 22 years in the EEC did nothing to stop changes Thatcher made, and 26 years in the EU since 93 have done nothing to reverse them"

 

VG

Ok so let’s get this straight

You can’t defend any of your ideas from all the outstanding criticisms and refuse to answer any question that you find difficult to answer so the only thing you have got to counter the mountain of stuff that undermines everything you seem to stand for is – drum roll – me saying right wing neoliberalism?

Really is that it, honestly man that’s all you have – well oh huh….that’s going to have me quivering in my boots and questioning all of my political stance….

Let’s see everything you have presented to back up you view that the UK should Brexit lay in tatters at your feet and you think me saying right wing neoliberalism is some type of killer blow.

Can you think about that a moment and decide if you really want to go on?

 

To our third party readers, this is again another post that doesnt say anything. You have to be specific

"from all the outstanding criticisms"

Just saying that doesnt mean anything, what criticisms are they?

Just saying "read the posts" all the time also doesnt mean anything, thread is 72 pages long now, what posts are you talking about?

And yes, right wing neoliberal policies, cuts to public services...which public services and when, and why just public services, hence why just neoliberalism....and running down the manufacturing base, what manufacturing industries, and when, and how were they run down just by government policies.

Look over the last 20 pages of this thread, imagine yourself a new member thats just joined up trying to follow this thread, its nonsensical

You dont ever actually say anything, or when you do its like Arlene Foster thing, you just copy and paste something someone else has written that you think kind of sounds like it has something to do with the topic

 

VG

LOL – with you I’d pity any third party reader

VG you know exactly what criticisms are outstanding and what questions you refuse to answer so stop fucking around

You also know we have been through all the neoliberal stuff before- again you are just pretending we haven’t to waste our time.

And my poor man the really nonsensical thing on the thread at the moment is you and your constant fucking around.

You say you want to get back on topic, so let me ask again - why do you think a Brexit especially a hard Brexit will be good for the UK economy?

PS : And just to remind people that just in the resent past I’ve set that question for VG in posts- 1265 – 1279 – 1335 – 1341 – 1346 – 1355 – 1382 – 1391 – 1395 – 1397 – and still have had no reasonable response

 

Yes, because once again, instead of answering all that; what "neoliberal" policies and what manufacturing you talking about and when etc

You throw it back at me again.

You want to play bully, start off by showing me a single post in the last 72 pages where you have actually come up with something yourself rather than copying and pasting an article someone else has written. Something more detailed than just saying stuff like neoliberal policies or "the" manufacturing base

And yes, I have already answered why, not only a hard brexit is necessary, it is now inevitable...even if you get another extension before halloween.

You need that free trade agreement with your biggest trading partner.

 

VG

Sorry but I’ve already said that that this thread is about Brexit and I’ve written about neoliberalism in plenty of other places.

If you want to go into the neoliberal ideas and policies I’m happy to do so but in another thread, I’ll even start one for you.

Countering neoliberalism

Because you are the one that is continually evading. I mean LOL your post is all about ‘throwing it back’ in the hope no one will notice you still haven’t answered any questions or address the many outstanding criticisms of your views.

Why is it bullying to point out you are constantly evading it’s just pointing out a fact.

The vast majority of my post don’t include any pasted articles and I have nothing to hide people can go back and make up their own minds.

What I am noticing is you still seem unable to answer the question I keep posing

So let me ask again - why do you think a Brexit especially a hard Brexit will be good for the UK economy?

No you haven’t, you have set out some wishes but that is the equivalent of saying that you think if there is a Brexit every family will get a gold shitting unicorn but that is not rational or reasoned argument.

For example

But our biggest trading partner is the EU27 and we already have a free trade agreement with them you have tried to push the idea that the US is our biggest trading partner but that fell on its face back in post 1279

If you had read it you would know that it ends with me once again asking you

Why do you think a Brexit especially a hard Brexit will be good for the UK economy?

 

EU Braces for U.S. Tariffs Over Airbus Dispute

 

EU will introduce a digital services tax even if the world can't agree