I'm sticking with the thought that if you try something 1 or 2 times, you really can't tell what variations are because of set/setting differences vs some difference in the substance. There's such a variation between taking the same substance at different times, that one or two experiences can't really be enough to assess the substance. Especially when those 1 or 2 times are close together, so that set would likely be similar, and could be the cause of the distinct flavor of the experiences rather than the substance.
I wasnt trying to persuade you that view just prompted a response. I also didn't interpret 'taking things a few times' as meaning 1 trip and was responding to comparing different Psychedelics.
i think you are both onto something. like GB says, i can tell the difference between 4acodmt and LSD. and i think i could still tell the difference between them if they both looked and tasted the same (if it wasn't a powder labeled 4acodmt vs. blotters that i assumed to contain LSD). but what if the come up times were similar? that might take away much of my ability to tell the difference between one or two trips on each. but after more extensive tripping with 4acodmt, i bet it's differences from LSD will become even more apparent. but i think that all the psychedelics share some common features, and that with only one trip to compare them, a lot of us might not be able to identify them. set and setting really does make a difference, in ways that aren't always obviously understandable. for example, i took two hits of the same LSD, on the same weekend in july (2011 and 2012) with the same person on the same amount each time, and in the same physical spot. one trip i had some bad jaw tension, and some other side effects upon coming down. the other time, i had none. just rambling on: as different as 2ce and 2cb feel, i'm not positive i could identify one over the other in a blind taste/trip test. the duration of the trip would be the main thing to go by, but even that could get jumbled up. i don't think 2ce lasts as long as it used to for me.
dang dude first post. too bad i didn't listen to this. no harm done though. also peacegrow i find it interesting that this happened to both of us on the same weekend. mine were priced differently though so i suppose that the tabs aren't the same.
I can see where "a few" meaning 3+ could be enough to start to get a feel for something, especially if it was not close together and/or separated by experiences with other substances. And I'm sure sometimes even on the first time you can could experience a lot of the flavor of that psychedelic, even if you aren't sure yet that it's that substance that's making it distinct until you try it 2 or 3 more times. I'm pretty sure I could tell 4acodmt from LSD too, but also not 100% sure. Since I did get burned with some nbome, now I have a negative feeling towards them. That on top of not really loving my first couple experiences with it will definitely affect any time I take it in the future. So...even if it is a pretty cool substance I think I might have set myself up to have mediocre trips with it in the future. So, if I wasn't careful, I might think the substance is mediocre when it's really just something with me. (I think the blotter I got was either 25c or 25i/c mixed because if did seem a little nicer than the 25i I had before...but I only tried the blotter once and don't really have a desire to again right now.) I didn't think it would happen to me. It's not the money that bothers me....just that I could have probably found something else with that money, and I have the "ripped off" bad feeling. And I know I've seen the guy before....and I'm pretty sure I will again. I have to try to stay calm when I do try to explain what he did.
i don't wanna review all the pages and try to figure it out, so i'll just ask. did you only eat these fake LSD blotters that you think are nbome the one time? or did you try them again once you suspected they were nbome? because maybe you would like it, if you knew what you were eating (relative to the 1st time you dosed it, not know it's exact ID for sure) or maybe whatever nbome chemical it is...IS mediocre
NBOMEs are really nice. They are at least as good as 2C-x, if not better. Getting sold them as LSD though, of course sucks, but no more than getting 2c-e sold to you as LSD would. NBOMEs are not evil. I don't know why your friend had a seizure, or the details of the seizure. Mushrooms cause seizures in a lot of people, but that doesn't mean mushrooms are some evil drug. It's just that you are messing with serotonin receptors and blood pressure and very strong thought patterns, light sensitivity, shit can happen to some people, we don't exactly have a medical workup of your friend to work with. Also I have to say that your comment about LSD never, ever having a taste and that anyone saying so is just lying to cover up the fact that it's not LSD, it's just not true man. And it really makes me question everything you say. I've eaten what I think is LSD from many different sources and batches, probably around 10 different ones in my lifetime, and only I think ONE of those sources had no taste to it, some liquid I had from australia, and it produced the exact same effects as all the other ones I've tried that sometimes had a fairly strong soapy taste. Unfortunately neither you nor I are adept enough at chemistry to even postulate what could cause such a taste, much less know exactly how some lab in norway or turkey or who knows where is making these, and exactly what method (possibly very custom!) is being used that could leave trace impurities with slight taste. Maybe it's just the bloody ink sometimes. I could never in my life mistake 4-aco-dmt for LSD, I think you guys are maybe joking around lol. Even 2c-e and 2c-b differentiation would be quite easy I think. Harder than LSD/4aces, but I still think I'd be able to tell just from the main effects, those two are pretty far apart from each other on the 2cx effects scale. One is electric alien strangeness the other is warm bright loving laughter. I've not experienced the opposite from either, ever. I have experienced a wide range of chemicals on blotter (LSx, DOx, NBOME), and while DOx and NBOME are somewhere around 7/10 - 10/10 on bitterness, my "lsd with a taste" was more like 1/10 - 4/10, with a high upper end for the most soapy LSD blotter i've ever had. (shivas/ganeshes, some of the best LSD to ever touch my body or this earth) And as for LSD having "no body load" Increase dose dude, LSD can have a pretty righteous body load at times. Nothing compared to 2cX of course, but for example I remember pr0ne, who I know for a fact knows his acid, once said that anytime he doses a good dose, he vomits.
when i eat lsd that tastes super metalicy it feels like there is someone with a sharp needle scraping lines down the inside of my chest. seriously that shit hurts. my body will tense up so much that it's hard to move around sometimes. literally sharp, jolting pains, going through my chest. but if i eat good clean lsd my chest feels fine. no sharp jolting pains. my chest feels more like water. my whole body feels good. that's what i mean by body load. that's how i can tell the difference between good lsd and bad lsd. it makes a world of difference to me. and all of the lsd that was tastless, or very near to it, was the lsd that produced no body load. i've had more than my share of good white on white blotters, and i've also run across a tenstrip of shivas. both of these, i found to be pretty tastless, clean, and producing no body load. good lsd. i've also had my share of tasteless blotters with patterns on them. so while maybe there is lsd out there that has a strong metalic taste, i still wouldn't eat it, and consider it unclean lsd.
but they aren't at least as safe. 2cx has been used for a few years now, has a bit of a history. for all we know, seizures with 25i-nbome could be pretty common. these are some of the newest (widespread) RCs, as you probably know. with 4aces and LSD, i was trying to say that IF they looked the same, tasted the same, and had a similar comeup, i might have trouble differentiating the trips from each other, IF i had only tried each one a couple of times. lots of IFs i guess, but i was just trying to validate peacegrow's point. as far as 2ce vs 2cb, i have definitely had the opposite from each. 2ce has given me some.....ok, maybe not "warm" or "bright" but i have had some loving and some laughter, some genuine learning experiences and good trips. 2cb i have experienced some alien strangeness on, especially with sub-par set/setting the dosage and the duration, and even the comeup (2cb seems faster for me, maybe that's only because of larger dose but i don't think so) are all good indications, but i'm not SO positive i could differentiate them in a blind taste test. and if i could, it'd be precisely because i've tried them each so many times. i think peacegrow was trying to say that with NEW substances, it's hard to tell the difference. if someone gave me "a medium dose of 2cx"...could be -e, -b, or any of the common ones i haven't tried 2c-i, -p, -t7, -t2, etc. i'm not so sure i'd be able to tell is it 2ce, 2cb, or something else. but maybe i could
desos, i had some shivas (red shivas, and blue "shivas" but it was actually ganesha on it) the ganeshas were definitely soapy or a little bitter, and i think the shiva was too. but the shiva was one of my best trips ever. maybe a little jaw tension and muscle aches but they were probably from raging all day at the festival in the woods i've NEVER had the bad chest feeling from LSD. maybe you're getting a different drug? OR, if you are getting LSD each time and one is "dirty" how do you know it's not based on something else like your diet in the days before the trip, your physical activity during the trip, psychological or psychosomatic shit going on? you aren't going to convince us that you can taste the difference between clean and unclean acid. i suppose we will not convince you that you can't
it was always distinguishable between batches. like, if tenstrip (a) of w/w blotter had no taste and gave me no chest pains, then the rest of it wouldn't either. but if tenstrip (b) of w/w blotter tasted metallic and gave me chest pains then so would the rest of it. (from different sources of course)
No, I only tried the blotter that one time, and it was at a festival two days after taking two hits of very nice LSD. I do have a lot of 25i that I bought as 25i before all this happened. I might even be more likely to try that than the blotter. But my experience with that was that it was not a replacement for LSD. (I tried the 25i about 4-5 times from very strong to very weak doses. Never really with the ideal setting though.) (Because of the 25i I had, I was 90% sure the blotter was some nbome when I put it in my mouth. I almost didn't follow though, but figured I have to test it sometime since I just spent $200 on it. But I had a cloud of disappointed that whole night about what happened, which I'm sure affected the trip. It may be that the blotter is 25c or 25c/i mix, which may be better than my 25i.) My friend on the other hand has been eating up the blotter and loves it. He is convinced it's LSD. That might be what makes the difference. Although I was really hopeful that 25i would be very close to LSD when I first had it, the fact that it wasn't LSD may have affected my trip. That's the key with me. I wasn't enamored with it when I tried it before this happened, which really may have been more related to set/setting, but now it just reminds me of people selling it as LSD. I'm not totally joking about the 4acodmt vs LSD thing. They seemed very different, but I've also been fooled a lot with blind taste tests (with food, like red and green grapes), that I'm sure _some_ of the difference was perceived and based on trip reports etc. I guess I'll just hold onto these doses, and maybe my buddy will buy the other half after he's eaten his 25. He knows what I think about them, but really likes them and thinks they are LSD, so that will work out nicely. (I haven't told him about Desos's friend having a seizure. Maybe I should since he seems to be going more and more epic. 4 hits last time.) I've definitely had blotter with a metallic feeling, but these ones are unmistakably chemical tasting and have that numbing feeling. I've never had other LSD that had more taste except for trying a vial a friend bought in 1991/2 at a dead show that had a strong taste. Even then (with very little knowledge) I was pretty sure it wasn't LSD. I don't remember the effects. Otherwise it really has been tasteless, including vials that tasted like water (no taste.) So, for me, I'm going to stick with LSD (regardless of medium) that is either tasteless are very close. I may pass up some real LSD that had just been put on bad tasting paper or weird ink, but I'm fine with that. As far as "body load" goes, I tend to think of that as negative physical feelings. (I recently tried to explain the term to a friend, and didn't have a good definition.) For me, on LSD, I always feel wonderful. There may be physical affects, but they always seem positive to me. The only thing I can think of is trouble regulating temperature, which can be troublesome if it's cool out, but otherwise I feel great. Pretty much every time.
i get slight body load on the comedown of acid. seems like it might be proportional to how active i've been that day though, or how much i was around people i love and don't see often and was therefore smiling for the last several hours 4acodmt is the next "cleanest" thing to LSD, but i've still gotten a bit of a headache from it 2cb has given me a killer headache and 2ce gives headache and stomach ache, AFTER the trip
oh ok so the trip i had on lsd that tasted real metallic was shitty because of my diet, and psyhsical activity during that day. no wait, it was because of psychosomatic factors. seriously? it's like you guys are ignoring the simple fact that certain batches of LSD have always given me an intense bodyload that induces sharp chest pains, regardless of set and setting. and the lsd that has given this effect has always tasted real metallic. if you don't beleive me then that's fine. you guys can't write everything off as set and setting.
What Writer means by the fact that the phenomenon you're describing is psychosomatic is that yes, in your experience, all the tabs with a taste also had a body load. For you, it may very well hold true every time. Every time you take acid that has a taste, you experience a body load. The problem with this is that it's not recreatable by anyone else as reliably, which leads to the pretty obvious conclusion that the occurrence must have an internal route. It's perfectly logical to think that you've developed a psychological association with acid that tastes bad, and the bad feelings that you feel during the trip. Once the association exists it will continue to happen. You seem very convinced that acid with a taste must cause a body load, which is enough to convince me that you believe it well enough to trick yourself into feeling it. Especially while under the influence of an extremely powerful psychedelic. By the same means you can trick yourself into thinking that acid with no taste will be a good trip. As soon as the tab hits your tongue, and you either taste bitterness or nothing, you begin to affect the way your trip plays out because in that moment you make the decision of whether or not you think the trip will cause a body load. If you expect it to, it's more likely that it will. If you're sure it won't then it might not happen, or you might just completely overlook it.
How do you know? Have you got another mind with no prejudice for or against anything that you can analyse your current mind with, observe any psychosomatic factors, even look at your own biological arrangement to see if anything physical is the cause? Not disagreeing with you, but don't be so black and white - it's a strong possibility since nobody else really seems to agree with you. I'm not experienced enough to give a truly valid opinion - but I like to believe the blotters I've munched have been acid, and they've had some bitterness to them.. not something that lingers though - pretty much the same taste as chewing on a cupcake mold after you've munched the cupcake(it's inky).
desos, how would you explain me getting a body load on one trip, but not another trip of the same dose of the same LSD? first time, i ate two microdots with my brother at our camping spot. by the end of the night i had some jaw tension, a minor headache, and some significant gut cramping and gas. this time we happened to have walked up the creek pretty far. next summer, i ate two microdots with my brother at our camping spot. i didn't really get any of the after effects, and we had not hiked as vigorously that day. i'm sure i had a different diet on each of the days before. and since they were timed almost exactly one year apart, my mindset was different in ways that are mostly unknown to me, unless i really try to analyze them. even then, i would miss things, because i can't think about my mind from an objective point of view. so is my acid clean or dirty?
You are revealing your major lack of knowledge about the whole science behind tripping, biology, set and setting, all of it. How do you explain the fact that sharp chest pains are not a clinical side effect of LSD? Do you know what they are a side effect of though? Psychosomatic stress. Acid reflux. Out of all my travels and adventures and readings you are the first person Desos to ever report "sharp chest pains" with your "dirty acid". You are 100% creating this with your mind.
