California cop shoots unarmed man eleven times

Many people have pointed out subterfuge.

He was an ex con. He had a knife. He got shot 11 times not once. He was a dirtbag and had it coming.

Very few want to discuss root issues.

People and their not thinking.

 

What would you consider the root causes? I'll discuss whatevah

If its the cop being too close is one, I simply do not agree. I've never been through police training so I don't know what the protocol is......but he was there to make an arrest. The suspect looked like he was going to make a run for it. When a suspect flees I don't think the cop would be doing his job if he kept distance and let them take off. Seems like you would want to move in and subdue the suspect.

Bottom line. When you have a weapon and disobey an officers orders with his gun drawn.....you gonna get shot.

 

Yep. Haven't said otherwise.

Did you look at the last video? See any difference? From the cops vantage point and awareness this guy could have posed the same threat?

Why do you think it came out different?

 

It came out different because the suspect did what the officer told him to do. You really can't compare the videos.

I could say that: since the cop called him out by his first name, he knew the guy personally. Maybe he's arrested him a couple times before this and had no reason to think the kid would get violent. So when he didn't listen and appeared to be fleeing the cop jumped out expecting to tackle the guy.

But that's all just speculation. But I see it just as convincing as your video.

 

Okay you might want to find a different video, because I just watched it again and the guy there didn't do anything illegal....at least not on that tape.

It is actually encouraged to do what the "suspect" did.

He turned on his blinker to acknowledge the cop, and pulled over at the next lit parking lot. This poses absolutely no threat. I even remember a state trooper reccomend doing this in Kentucky State traffic school. It's used for personal safety against bad cops and people pretending to be cops

Who's the subterfuger now?

PS: thank you for the fun new word

 

Looks like he went out that side to hide something or grab something, but....

Why the FUCK did the cop run it like it was a video game? He could have stayed behind his car and drawn his weapon, and even fired a warning shot.... or he could have even shot the guy ONCE.... or even TWICE..... he had a strong advantage even if the guy got a weapon.

The way he shot him makes it look like he'd decided to kill him, no matter what happened. There was no reason for that number of shots, or the whole sprinting in thing. Guy was a sitting duck, wether his foot was really caught or he was trying to grab something, it would have been plain easy to taze him or fuck him up pretty badly with a billy club....

He had turned around towards the truck, but had made no move towards the officer.

Lastly, who the fuck goes after someone who they know has a gun and the authority to kill them with it, with a knife?

 

A lot of very foolish people who end up being shot because they did exactly that.

 

And you care about freedom and shit.... Or, you often say you do. Stop talking about "protocol", I don't care if the protocol says you can run in and dump a clip into somebody because he tried to run, then the protocol needs to be changed and the guy who wrote the protocol needs to be charged with conspiracy to commit murder (times however many have died as a result of that protocol).

He was there to make an arrest, and if the guy ran, without his truck, what would the officer do? Get in the squad car, and knock his dumb-ass over. Or, how about keep his distance to assure his own safety, and shoot for the guys legs?

His job is to arrest, but simply because he cannot arrest, does not mean that he can kill. If he feared for his own safety, he should have stayed far enough away that he need not fear, the suspect escaping was NOT an issue, they had him at his house, he was leaving his vehicle, and cops are armed to the teeth and if they really thought he was a serious public danger they could have shot him in a leg or tazed him... or just bumped him with the squad car.

If the officer had remained in his car, he could have used the car to stop the man, or at least as a base from which he could have stopped the man, once his determination to not cooperate was clear.

The guy probably just thought he would have a little chat, and jumped out to flush drugs down the toilet or something..... dude murdered him.

If Mr. sublime himself didn't put his hands up, but scrambled to swallow a joint, I would speak on his behalf, too. Why are you defending those who use rediculous fucking force, eleven times "lethal force", on human beings? Why doncha let the lovin' take a'hold? It MIGHT if you let it....

And the guy being on parole has nothing to do with..... anything, as far as killing him goes.

 

Roor, this is all very naive. Kinda surprised it came from you.

 

.....I just don't buy that running in and pulling the trigger as fast as he could was the right thing to do, in that situation..... The guy clearly COULD have been a threat, but the officer, also clearly, could have used his own car as a shield and the guy probably would have just submitted once he realized his life depended upon it. If he did not, the officer still could have injured, or if he felt it necessary, even killed him, without submitting either the officer himself or any bystanders to anywhere near as much danger.

No matter wether the officer was right in running in like that, or opening fire like that, my side of this discussion would be much more awkward if he had fired his weapon one time, or two times, or three times.... or five times. Or if he had even paused to see what his bullets did. Again, he didn't want to subdue the man, he wanted to kill him, it looks like.

Maybe he also paniced a bit, but that looks like a pretty dull situation that many cops face all the time, if he really thought any of his actions where the best there, he needs a fuckton more training.

 

Exactly!! which is why if you ever watched COPS on tv you know that instead of chasing after a suspect on foot (in order to apprehend them and give them a '''fair trial''), the cops always shoot the suspect to death to avoid all the legal bullshit.
AMERICA :bobby: #1

oh wait..

 

And really stop being so naive everyone, the cops had enough information to know Duenez might have a knife, but they didn't know enough about him to positively confirm he was not one of those Mexican ninjas that can throw a knife between your eyes before getting their seatbelt all the way off

 

Looks like the cop was the aggressor. Most cops never pull their gun out let alone get to shoot a bad guy. Shoot to kill. Dead bad guys dont talk or sue.

 

It came out differently because the cop didn't rush into the danger zone.
In the case of Ernie, the cop ran in before Ernie started out of the truck.
In the second, he maintained authority and control. The guy getting out of his car never was a threat to life because the cop held back until he was safe. The he proceeded, weapon drawn.

The cop knew his name because of the history and background he was given beforehand. It's all in the Manteca PD report discussed earlier. He was sent there to investigate a report of domestic violence. Not arrest him.

Which video did you watch? In the one I posted, he refused to pull over. The cop stated that he had a report of someone impersonating an officer in a black dodge. The suspect started getting out of the car without direction.
The cop had much reasonable suspicion. How is it that different?

If he was a "suspect".. (quote unquote) why did the cop proceed towards him slowly, weapon drawn?
Because he wasn't a "suspect".
He was a suspect.

Thing is though, unless something is left out of previous facts, he wasn't even there to arrest. The cop was there to investigate a report.

 

I just responded to letlovin', and I think op wrote that he was "wanted" for domestic assault, though I could be wrong.

But you're right, I don't know.

All I know is what I watched in the video: the cop followed him, didn't even seem to have lights on, and then started yelling at him: the guy seemed to panic, the cop ran in, the cop seemed to panic, and the cop put more than half a clip into the guy without hesitation or pause, and then continued panic-edly yelling at the twitching corpse.

 

No doubt he was going to get arrested wanted, wanted for questioning.. whatev. Based on the other witnesses that turned him in, he was going to jail no doubt.

On the videos, there is an imprint showing that the lightbar was turned on when he pulled behind.

 

Not correct.

According to the report Ernie was already wanted for parole violations as of 5 days earlier.
Instant go directly to jail card for him.
It was the domestic disturbance call that let the police know where he was, what vehicle he was in and that he was armed.
Based on info they collected it was very likely that Ernie would go back to his girlfriends house. That is why the officer waited there. This info and him waiting only took a few minutes before Ernie showed up.


Dispatch Log No. 1: On June 8, 2011 at 06:05 hours, officers of the Manteca Police Department responded to 491 Ribier Court on a call of a suspicious person being in a room above the garage of the residence. Office Avakian responded to that call. Upon contact with the reporting party, Officer Avakian was made aware that Ernest Duenez was
suspected of taking a sword and sticking it into screen of the residence. Officers of the Manteca Police Department began looking for Duenez and were made aware that he was a Parolee at Large (PAL), as of June 3, 2011. It should be noted that the PAL notice indicated that Duenez was considered armed and dangerous.

Dispatch Log No. 2: On June 8, 2011 at 17:18 hours, a reporting party, Tom White, located near the intersection of Pillsbury Rd. and Woodward Ave., Manteca, called the Manteca Police Department due to a domestic disturbance. A second reporting party, Michael Henry called police as well. It was reported and aired on MPD dispatch that a man involved in the disturbance has a knife on him, and that he is known to carry a handgun.
This information is confirmed by the MPD dispatch log 11-14968. It should be noted that no police report was generated by this call as the parties were not present at the time that MPD responded to this area.

Officer John Moody: Officer Moody stated that on June 8, 2011, he started his shift as a patrol officer in standard uniform, with standard one-person, marked patrol unit at 11:30a.m. He stated that upon starting his shift, he was made aware that Ernest Duenez was a PAL and that he was considered armed and dangerous. Officer Moody indicated that he was aware of Duenez' past and thought that he might be involved in criminal street gangs. Various attempts were made throughout the day to locate Duenez, without success. In the late afternoon, Moody was made aware that there was a domestic disturbance involving Duenez on Pillsbury Road and that Duenez was armed with a knife
(see above). Moody was made aware through dispatch that Duenez was last seen lying down in the back "jump seat" of a light blue pickup truck that was being driven by an older Hispanic male with an older Hispanic female as the passenger.


So on June 3rd Ernie became wanted for parole violations.
6:00 am June 8th he sticks a sword through someone's window and they identify Ernie.
So they start looking for Ernest in earnest.
Moody comes on duty at 11:30 and is told of the search for Ernie and he says he is familiar with him.
5:18 pm June 8th another call about Ernie and this time he's on the move and they know where and in what.

go read the report for the rest......

 

This thread has now been going for almost exactly 100 hours. That's 36 000 seconds, which is about 18 000 % longer than the cop had to react and decide what to do.

I think we should think on that.

 

Dispatch can say anyone's running around with a knife, and while caution obviously should have been taken, that doesn't mean shooting him for not immediatly putting his hands up. Getting ready to shoot him, sure.... but not what the cop did, at all.

It sounds like the information that the officer already had made him essentially decide to kill the guy if he made a wrong move, instead of "respond" in a dynamic fashion.

 

I don't see where you quoted that we was wanted for parole violations. Ok, I'll look at that again maybe. Is that what PAL is supposed to mean? All that says is he was wanted for arrest.
Ya, he was a dirtbag.