Can somebody explain death to the ego to me?

You're right, he put it excellently. All your little "stories" about who you are ("I am a student", "I am a man", "I am Tom", "I am interested in opera") fly out the window, and this is where panic sets in. That's why strong dose psychedelics feel like you're dying. You are! Good thing "You" is just a hallucination your nervous system maintains for psychological continuity of the organism.

 

The real trick is to maintain that awareness of the stories and scripts that we run for what they are and to see past the veil and into the center of the maelstrom of existence in our normal waking conciousness.

I have slowly over the years learned to be able to keep a hold of that awareness in normal conciousness to some degree or another.
I think that is why my recent journeys over the summer with cacti and shrooms didn't present me with that AHA! type of revelation.
I saw and viewed things much as I always do now, and therefore was able to actually get past that and really dig into myself and accomplish some other work rather than just an awareness of "The Game".

I just call it maintaining that third person perspective.
I hope that makes sense, it is an ineffible sense of being that so efficiently eludes description through language.

 

so you think your just an organism?

 

execellent link PB-- personally i hate ego death--i liked it much better when i got superpowers---you know -telepathy -remote viewing- astral traveling---getting my flow on--that ego death shit was scary

 

Ego death to me was slipping away from here and from the memory of 'everyone' I had been. For some reason, it was presented to me that everyone I had met and ever known was a part of me, rather than people whom I had met, the ultimate third person perspective, but with the whole of the human race...

"Grinners is going to love telling James about this experience when he gets back..."
"Joe and james are really good people, in that world the 3 of them are good friends"
etc.

very hard to put into words...

 

You have such a wonderful way with words. Truly a skill!

 

I believe that the reason it always feels like familiar territory, even to those experiencing ego dissolution through psychedelics for the first time, is because thats how we lived the first year or so of life.
An infant has no language to confine and define their experience, they are just experiencing.
It is believed that the distinction between "me and other than me" doesn't really get formed until about 18 months of age.
For example when an infant is hungry, from their perspective, everyone and "all" is hungry.
It is not until language starts to truly be used by a child that the sense of distinction and self emerges. That is one of the reasons why most children go through the "terrible twos". There are asserting their independence and sense of self, and searching for boundaries from important others in their life to help them internally define who they are.

That is why if the parents are too permissive and don't set clear and firm boundaries in a child's life the child never fully developes a strong sense of self and self esteem. That also leads to increased emotional and behavioral problems later in life and often into adulthood.

I have rambled on again haven't I?

I tend to do that because I always see the interconnectedness of everything, the "gestalt" if you will, so I tend to easily flow from one idea into the next.

 

i was just thinking something like this

does anyone else find that once you have experienced ego death or that one-ness/interconnectedness of everything, or whatever you want to call it....does it become less noticeable on subsequent trips? or more noticeable? more comfortable and "normal" so that it's not such a shock.

i've never experienced ego death to where i lost complete track of the sense of me. but i had the thought that there should be no distinction between me and a starving homeless man, or an abused povertry stricken woman, or an HIV infected child in africa. that their well being was just as important as my own. that my fellow humans (and maybe life in general) were a big part of me. just a feeling of LOVE and "one process" as someone else said.

but once i felt this on a psychedelic, when i trip now, i don't really feel that as strongly because i'm always kinda thinking it sober. or maybe i do feel it, it's just expected.


edit: just watched that richard alpert video
where he said "all wars are civil wars because all men are brothers"
and "there is no they. it is all one"
those are the feelings i am SPECIFICALLY talking about
that to me is ego dissolution or death
but it wasn't THAT scary to me. it was beautiful
that was the moment i realized that patriotism or nationalism is pretty stupid

 

I believe that once a person starts to integrate certain "awareness's" into their normal consciousness that then those "revelations" during trips are no longer as revelatory because they become part of the norm.
Did that make sense?

I now have different types of experiences with psychedelics. When journeying with cacti this summer I looked up at the moon and thought "The moon has been witness to all our existence" and then in my mind I kind of replayed all human history in a flash and an instant.

 

yea man i think we are saying the same thing
i've had a few trips (on 2ce) where it felt like i was being told a story of the birth of the human race. i had visuals with "motherly" tones or themes, and it was very cyclical. like human history in a flash.
that's cool you say that about the moon. my gf and i used to have a long distance relationship, and it was sort of comforting to know we could look at the same moon when we talked on the phone

there, now i rambled a bit too

 

This is a great thread Greg, glad that you asked about this. And I really enjoy your posts PB Smith, very informative. Ego death for me is when you truly feel that we are all one, and you dont think of yourself as "you" anymore, its hard for me to convey this into words, but its great.

Can you please explain to me what you mean by getting ur flow on as a superpower? The only reason I ask this is because I experience something that could be called that on psychedelics alot. It happens more so at a concert setting but doesnt neccesarily have to. I feel some other force moving me, it feels very fluid or gelatin like and i can dance with no effort whatsoever. I can stop myself from doing this but if I just relax and let it take hold this happens. Its a beautiful feeling, I feel that when this happens its like im perfectly in sync with the flow of the universe, not fighting it in any way whatsoever. I would just like somebody that can relate to this and explain it a little bit for me, I have yet to find anybody who knows what I am talking about.

 

Thanks for your support.

I'm not sure that what you are feeling is the ego death or dissolution that Alpert is referring to in the clip I linked to. Full ego dissolution from psychedelics can actually be a pretty scary experience because psychologically for all intents and purposes "you" die. Everything that has defined "you" to yourself and the outside world ceases to be in operation or of any relevance and you truly are, as Alpert said, left as just a point of awareness.

I feel this happens as a function of high dose experiences, 300ugs and above, but not necessarily every time or everyone. Often our defensive mechanisms kick in and pull us out of it because it is like dyeing. You really have to let go of everything and just allow it to happen. Some people even have intense physical sensations related to the experience.
This, as I said, usually scares the living shit out a person the first time it happens.

Not to diminish your experience in any way, but the feeling of oneness and unity is also a very common and normal experience from psychedelics, but is not the experience of ego death.

I personally have only gone through this experience once and it scared the beejesus out of me..
But once there it is a wondrous experience and can change a person from their fundamental core thru to every aspect of their being. And it only has to be experienced once to change you forever.

 

Yeah ur right, that may not be full ego dissolution but maybe starting the process of it. In the way that you are talking about, I have only experienced that once as well, and it was a VERY frightening experience to the point that I was crying. But i am very thankful for that experience and still have alot to learn from that trip, its been over two years and im still trying to piece it all together.

 

Now that sounds like the real deal. It's been over thirty years for me and I still at times reprocess it.

 

i'm not positive that i've experienced full blown ego loss. i guess that means i probably haven't. increase dose as some of you guys say

 

Be careful not to attach ego to your trips guys! Walking a fine line!

I assume this full disolution of the ego is when (to me atleast) all that was left was a spiral, hurtling through space, behind the 'forms' of the universe (as ram dass would say). A single point or entity without physical form. I have been there, but consequent higher doses have still not yet taken me to the same place Might never see that again i guess! Yet it was such a profound experience that I remember thinking to myself "i would happily work for 99years just to have experienced this". Truly a ground shaking expereince, that does touch every part of you.

Leaving you, upon return, questioning whether time, and other basics exist. Was a scary experience drifting off to some place where not even time (let alone anything physical) exists.

 

Another thing I thought I might be able to add:

Each dose of LSd (for simplicity) disolves another 'form' that we hold dear to ourselves. Like Alpert says, we are built to notice and to express differences in one another. When all of these differences go, we experience ego death to an extent, and we see each and every human as the same as us.

THEN, it gets interesting

One more 'dose' (once again for simpicities sake) and the last 'form' to go is that of being human, you die as a human, and you realise that you are the same as EVERYTHING that exists and everything that has ever existed. That is true ego death to me.

 

I know what you mean

I (for the sake of a better word) came back, and felt that i had come from a place with such overhwelming joy and love that I burst straight into tears, with absolute love for everything I had ever known, and everyone who was dear to me. Full of compassion... and this is illegal. What a world!

 

i have another question- do you think ego death has to come with immobilization of your physical body? can ego death only be experienced while lying down, eyes closed, not moving?

acid made me cry. it was the pain of pushing through, but once that was over i felt the most perfect humanity i've ever felt. i felt a "block" (physically, i felt a literal obstruction in my head), and when that started to fracture i had no choice but to break down. i think that block was my ego giving way. but i don't think i fully pushed through.

it's getting to be time for another high dose trip...

 

Trust in the central nervous system. I think that ego death can only come when 'the experiencer' in not in control of the body, but the body is not immobile (you still breath, heart beats etc.) its just not 'you' controlling it.

Therefore, i could imagine some trance like state where the body is moving left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot, without your control over it, has never happened to me though. Not sure if its possible, but it is certainly a lot easier to achieve when lying down, as 'you're' not there.... Wouldn't want to put my body in any danger, I'll want it in good shape when I return