Celibacy

Spiritual identity comes from the ability to chisel the real from the unreal. And you WILL work for it. Make no mistake. The power of discrimination is a learning computer. That is the instrument you will use.

Let's compare the attractions in life to magazines. You can walk by, pick one up and sift through it, sit it back down and continue on your way.

Or, you like what you saw, and take out a subscription. So that it's in your life on a regular basis.

What do you subscribe to? How many subscriptions do you need in your life to feel complete?

Sexuality is a pretty glossy publication. Very attractive. But there comes a time in one's journey where the horizon opens up, and a grand vista presents itself.

All that you knew up to that point, becomes dust in the wind.



x

 

Your pseudo-sage mode was more effective without the chocolate bunny cartoon. (And I mean no offense by that. You're one of the best pseudo-sages I've ever encountered. Coming from me, that's a definite compliment ).

On a more serious note, are you claiming to have attained "authentic celibacy"? Are you claiming to be enlightened?

Think about it this way -- are enlightened people capable of reproducing? Of course they are.

Do you think that during the act of copulation, an enlightened person is capable of feeling pleasure? Of course they are. If anything, sexual pleasure is enhanced by higher consciousness.

The only difference between a self-realized person and an ego-identified person with regard to sex is that in the midst of sexual feelings, there's an awareness of the aspect of their being that transcends all duality. Just as an enlightened person can inhabit a home without forming an attachment to it, so to can they engage in sex without forming an attachment.

Another way to approach this issue is to begin to understand what sexuality is at its essence. It is consciousness, bound by physiology, that knows instinctively that on some fundamental level, it's transcendent of duality. Due to the fact that this awareness is instinctive and not fully conscious, however, sexual energy seeks to transcend duality in the most concrete way possible -- by merging with it's opposing physical form.

So, yes, sexuality is a "glossy publication". But once you realize you're simply in the world but not of it (to use an old Buddhist expression), it doesn't matter how appealing a certain aspect of the world is. It can never supersede the awareness of your true spiritual nature.

Travis

 

Its the old long path short path thing.

You can certainly be a householder, even a celibate one. Or you wander around with a bowl and staff. Each person will choose as they come to that fork in the road. And they see that fork in the road every day of their lives. Freewill is never impeded in their decision to choose which one for what day.

Celibacy for me is the same. And with age, the years roll by.

Enlightenment is many things to many people.

I joke with folks that as I've aged, I'ved lost hair but gained perspective.

It was a good trade.



x

 

True enough.

For me, enlightenment is very simple, although many people like to attribute convoluted explanations as to its true nature. Enlightenment is black and white -- you're either enlightened or you're not. I say this very deliberately, because there seems to be some sort of societal stigma associated with "all or nothing" mentalities, even within spiritually-oriented communities. The Buddha didn't sit down under the bodhi tree and say, "hmm, I think I'll hang out here for awhile and pay attention to my breath. If I'm lucky maybe I'll become a little more enlightened". The Buddha said "I will not move from under this tree until I have attained full enlightenment" -- not exactly an ambiguous statement. This type of devotion of one's entire being is reflected in all of the world's religions in some form.

That being said, I do believe that the the immediate experience of any given spiritual aspirant manifests in the form of a continuum. Consciousness is uplifted gradually and conforms to the constraints of a hierarchy. The nature of that hierarchy is defined by the unique characteristics of the vessel being moulded to accomodate enlightened consciousness. This explains the wide variety of paths and approaches to spiritual growth. However, even someone who is on the verge of complete ego-transcendence is subject to the inherent limitations of the ego in one form or another.

I like the Bhagavad Gita's approach to this phenomenon. It claims that all of the material world can be divided into three modes of energy: Tamasic energy, which is inert and ignorant, Rajasic energy, which is passionate and action-oriented, and Sattvic energy, which is wise and good. The interesting thing about this approach is that although Sattvas appears to be the optimal energetic mode, it's fundamentally still a manifestation of the material world. Enlightened consciousness is considered to be transcendent of even goodness and wisdom.

What is enlightenment to you?

Travis

 

The common idea is enlightenment is supposed to be like a bolt from the blue. Instant transformation.

Maybe for some, but I suspect for most its a slow process for those who experience it.

From my own experience, its been like climbing a mountain. Every morning you wake, you are able to see a little further than the day before. You shout down in the valley what you see, and the only response you hear back is "who's that fool?"

Small matter though. It only impedes the path if you allow it to.

Am I at the mountain top yet? No, and I make no claim of it.

Am I above the valley where most people live? Yes. I can claim that. I can see both the valley floor and the mountaintop equally from where I am. Million dollar view too. Despite it's attractiveness, the mountain calls me forward.

So every morning when I wake, I put one foot in front of the other and the journey continues. No hurry. No desire to hurry. Time does not matter so much above the valley floor.


x

 

Having a somewhat mechanically-oriented mind, I like to describe the process of "climbing the mountain" using a graph. This may seem somewhat concrete when compared to the enigma that is enlightenment, but then again any spiritual metaphor is ultimately only a pale reflection of the actual experience.

It's been a while since I've studied any of these concepts formally so I'm not fully familiarized with the terminology, but it's the type of graph that begins ascending gradually but exponentially approaches the Y axis infinitely. Superimposed on the same graph is the same line, only inverted. In this graph, the Y-axis represents the degree of spiritual realization and the X-axis represents time. One line represents ego identification, while the other represents what you might call "soul" identification.

For a reason unknown to me, spiritual progression encapsulates a natural vacillation between what might crudely be called ego-consciousness and soul-consciousness. During periods of ego-consciousness, the spiritual aspirant is identified with the inverted line. They become acutely aware of the passage of time and at very advanced stages of the path they approach the X-axis infinitely. These periods can be very difficult for the individual, but they allow ego-identification to be processed out by embodiment. During periods of soul consciousness, temporal awareness is either pacified or completely transcended. They approach the Y-axis infinitely, which represents the experience of liberation and unbounded awareness. The configuration of the graph represents the fact that the spiritual path becomes simultaneously harder and easier as the individual progresses along it.

The slope of these lines is identical to Zeno's paradox (a classic mathematical paradox) -- if an archer fires an arrow at a tree, mathematically speaking it will never reach the tree because it is always traveling half the distance between the archer and the tree, and then half of that distance, etc, etc, on into infinity. But of course in reality, the arrow always hits the tree.

This is spiritually very profound because ultimately, spiritual progress is just as illusory as any other aspect of the world. How can we progress towards something that provides the foundation for our entire being and is omnipresent? This paradox is represented by the fact that both lines infinitely approach infinity -- mathematically speaking, they never reach it. But just as the arrow reaches the tree, so to can an individual realize their true nature.

Travis

 

The illusion is voluntary.

In simple terms, God hides parts of himself away from himself, for the purpose of discovery, and the thrill that comes from that.

Not unlike a child playing with dolls.



x

 

After attaining enlightenment, do you plan on volunteering again?

Travis

 

So where does this leave us agnostics?Do we seek enlightenment for insurance purposes only.For fun?Because it feels good?Because it's right and proper for us/humanity to do?For the chance to perhaps lead by example?Does/can pure enlightenment exist without a modicum of ego remaining?I would certainly say that the vast majority of humans could use a dose of enlightenment,but for most it's a struggle merely to maintain a physical existence, what with the trials and tribulations of everyday life,let alone the luxury of seeking a higher plane of such.To deny any aspect of what we've been given (by?),may be a fool's errand and reaching a complete state of denial of our human qualities(weak,crass,dangerous as some may be))including celebacy ,is just that.A denial of the balance of our humanness.(For?)-----------I reached for the sublime from the ridiculous in a well known "past era" and left much of my ego by the wayside and gained much,probably my life it'self.Also gone was much of my personality,my humor,my friends and sex.It's not for me,this seeking of TOTAL enlightenment.SOME,however was very necessary-for me.

 

The only thing obscuring your desire for TOTAL enlightenment is a belief that your well-being is dependent on some aspect of worldly existence. The eastern religions believe in reincarnation in part because it acknowledges the fact that a great deal of our souls' journey involves the pursuit of worldly pleasures, usually over the course of multiple lifetimes. Most souls require a great deal of suffering induced by gaining and then subsequently and inevitably losing their desired worldly object prior to developing a sincere desire to realize their true nature. Ultimately, it's simply a question of how much time you will spend with your awareness oriented towards that which is outside prior to having the inevitable realization that the source of that which is outside is always inside -- you.

Travis

 

Agreed.I have chosen.

 

the funny thing that we may post this forum full with ideas on what enlightenment is, but we only know what it truely is until we have reached it ourselves and i personally think that there are no words to even remotely describe that state of being

 

Anyone that has attained "complete"(?) enlightenment would not be here on a computer.There would be ,I believe,varying degrees of attainment,depending on individual situations.My point was -why the search-why the quest?It seems to me that some/ many/any/ that seek that total enlightenment have a hope that some "reward" from an entity after passing from this form ,will be forthcoming.If,then ,there are some universal laws recognized and adhered to by seekers -and deists of any stripe are actually correct,a good and wondrous path will be opened to the seekers.If,on the other hand,the constructs are of human imagination born of fear and awe of the unknown--that we are mere husks of rotting meat upon giving up this form,what would be the point in seeking anything other than that which can be attained by us in our present biological form?Thus ,the quandry for the agnostic.

 

Plus,it's difficult to be a Jack-ass the more enlightened you become!!Now that's a drawback.

 

Enlightenment manifests in many forms. Do you really think that the internet is incapable of acting as an avenue of expression for the enlightened? Enlightened consciousness utilizes any medium of communication it has available.

Ever heard of the Sisyphus myth? To summarize, it's about a man who is attempting to roll a boulder up a hill. Enlightenment is much like this. Even if a person has made it 99% of the way up, if they slip and fall, the boulder rolls all the way back to the bottom. The realization is only fully embodied after the boulder crosses the hill's crest.

The only entity that enlightenment deals with is the individual searching for enlightenment. Enlightenment can never by "bestowed" by a divine being, nor do true seekers expect to be rewarded in some imagined afterlife. Enlightenment is intended to be realized in this lifetime.

All of your objections to the pursuit of enlightenment are based on beliefs imposed by dogmatic religious institutions. The true teacher of enlightenment doesn't require you to accept anything on faith. If you really want to know whether or not you are simply a "husk of meat", then find out for yourself. There are many practices capable of being employed while in our present biological form that will reveal the more incorporeal aspects of your being. It's simply a matter of your willingness to engage in them. Agnosticism has no bearing on the issue.

Travis

 

I have no objections to the pursuit of enlightenment.I have no faith except that which has come to me through various phenomina, where upon I have seen there is something "out there" beyond which we are incapable of understanding in our present manifestations.I understand what you mean--I'm trying to maintain a true sense of objectivity with this.However,when I saw the wonder of the green jungle around me,the ocean,the moon behind a palm tree on a soft and fragrant evening--a seeming tableau that for a fleeting eve,I was priveliged to be a part of,with each and every molecule and atom of all I saw,including my own body,luminous,buzzing and swirling as one---when the waves stopped their motion somewhere between my conscious and un-conscious mind,I knew that I was exactly the same age as all else in existance.And I have chosen.

 

Sounds quite profound -- which raises the question: what exactly have you chosen? To remain in the "quandary" (as you put it) of the agnostic? And if that's the case, how is that choice consistent with the revelation you've described above?

Just curious.

Travis

 

It just reaffirmed my decision when I was quite young to not worry about any of it.It's all taken care of and isn't worth my concern ,other than to live openly and honestly,letting the "chips",as it were,fall where they may.As concerns a "reason"for the seeking of enlightenment ,I was trying to figure out what you thought the reason for the seeking actually was--the reward,ego gratification or ???See what I mean?--------Anyway,I must rush off and bring my boys a nail gun to finish off a roof.Oh,reality--Why must thou intrude so?Enjoy the day--type ya' later.

 

Well, assuming the spiritual aspirant's intentions are sincere, then the reason for seeking enlightenment is always to end suffering.

Travis

 

Hi ,

I heard that enlightenment comes true by ones effort rather than through prayer or from God, there is only one way and that's love. Because I learned from the true enlightened master, I'll explain what he can see as much as I understand this matter.

"Enlightenment is the opening of one's eyes to reality."

My teacher explains that things in the world make results on the basis of a principle and you can find the answers for problems through what is in the principle.

Please see the website of my Master Tathagata at the link for the best explanation. He is also available for answering people's questions, so if there's anything you've been wondering maybe he can help you find that out... He doesn't sell anything or ask for any donations, so you can read his teachings for free on his website:

link: Enlightenment of Tathagata

Thanks,
Paul