Author of the thread: "but what do you really think of him?" You get this from Cuban exile-sites portraying african rebels as cannibals, talking about how US citizens are always good and never harm others before they are harmed themselves. He executed war criminals, people who raped women in the streets, who cut old people's toungue out. And you call them "people"? You really got some funny "information". He helped ho chi minh? How? And how is that supposed to defame him? He led a nation who fought against imperialism. You are getting really desperate. Helped Mao? Are you saying guerilla fighting? You are out of your mind.
mmhhh first of all, i dont sympathise with communism, in fact i dont like the whole idea of it. But that doesnt have anything to do with my thoughts about Guevara. You may disagree with his ideas, you may disagree with the way he acted, but, again, you cant say that he wasnt loyal to his ideals tru his entire life. He risked his life to prove his truth, that worth at least respect. I dont know what kind of books do you get in the US or all the others pro capitalist countries, but you should try to read a good Guevara biography were the author doesnt express hiw own political ideas. A book where the author is focused just on the life of Guevara. A very good one is "El Che Guevara, La Biografia" by Hugo Gambini, but again, i dont know if you get this kind of books there.
Oh i thougth that the absolute truth was a very well refuted concept by Nietzche... but, well, i guess you have it, yeah, you have the absolute truth.
I do not understand your english. And if you are talking about communism (and I am not really sure if you are): The communist society marxists are struggling for have never been implemented. Does your subjective opinion change anything? Some people see themselves as the center of the universe, and believe that what they say will ultimately correspond to other people's opinions. In Germany during the 30's and the first half of the 40's, Germany was on the right side of history. Hitler was on the right side of history. Jews, Communists, socialists, handicapped people and homosexuals were on the wrong side of history. In other nations today "we" are on the right side of history. Do you not understand? The ruling class are those who write history, and everything is done to pervert the other side.
You do realize that Motorcycle Diaries is not a documentary, correct? It's not an accurate resource for any kind of research or claims. You really negate an argument when you let everyone know that you learned about Che from a movie. Communism is inherently bad, therefore I cannot support someone who helped implement it. You'll never hear someone that has lived through a communist regime acknowledge that it's a good system. The only supporters of communism now are just idealistic liberal young people who have lived sheltered by the luxuries of capitalism and personal freedoms. There is a girl here on hipforums who lives in an Eastern Bloc nation. She's been through communism and she certainly doesn't support it. My girlfriend and her family lived in Russia until the early 90s. You would never catch them telling stories of how great it was to live in poverty and have to exchange favors and contacts for food and toilet paper because an artificial food shortage was created and they hadn't recieved a paycheck in years. Or the mandatory hard labor in the fields each summer because of the mandatory military service. They don't enjoy relating stories of friends and aquaintances never hearing again from friend and aquaintances that had been picked up by the KGB. Lose the idealism and look at the reality of communism. Iron-fisted ruling, no freedom of speech, government capped markets and artificial famines, poverty, black markets, and prison-like borders. Tell the people who have lived through it how great of an idea it truly is.
True, it is not a documentary. But it is a very popular movie, and a lot of people have seen it. It was used as an example that people could relate to. People who only learn from one source always suprise me. It seems you fail to realize that people can learn from a variety of places. [size=-1]Narrow-minded[/size][size=-1] - [/size][size=-1]"Narrow-minded, " is an adjective used to describe a person who is intolerant or inflexible in their point of view regarding others. Narrow-minded often describes a person who subscribes to rigid dogma or religious viwpoints. In some instances, the word is used to describe a person who is easily offended by the relatively harmless behavior of others.[/size] Dogmatic - [size=-1]characterized by assertion of unproved or unprovable principles Please define "communist regime". If you would define "communist regime", then perhaps I could comment on that one. Why would you ever think Russia in the early 90s had anything to do with Communism? On another note, 75 percent of the people in Russia see Soviet times as better than today's capitalist Russia. Today, kids are sniffing glue, WW2 veterans are kicked out of the apartments they cannot afford and freeze to death. The population decline with a million a year. That is Russia today. And you should know that marxists generally despise the Soviet Union and what it turned into. Yes, as a marxist, I despise the Soviet Union (especially after Lenin's death). Under Lenin, homosexuality was legalized, homeless people could enter the palaces that previously belonged to the capitalist class and the Tzar and live in those palaces, women and men had equal rights, and while we are into equal rights, the first woman ambassador was a Soviet. Well, it all changed when "the new folks" took over. Back to the subject, Guevara was opposed to the Soviet Union. The "Communist party" in Bolivia was loyal to Moscow, and betrayed Che in when he went to Bolivia with other latin americans to start a revolution. There will be no "government" in a communist society. How can you criticize a system you know nothing about? I assume you talk about the famines in the Ukraine. The famine was not restricted to Ukraine, and as far as I can remember, Germany used it as a pretext to go to war against the Soviet Union. You know, the German "liberators". The story of the famine in the Ukraine was started by the German propaganda machine. The famine was a result of many things, including drought. But I don't really see why we are discussing the USSR under Stalin. Funny you should mention that, because US authorities are restricting their citizens to go to various countries. It's not always the bad, mean Soviet Union. And, although as much as I despise the Soviet Union, you forgot to add free healthcare, free housing, music lessons etc. Now you have free diseases. You don't even have to take care of your children, because they have escaped from home, hiding under a bridge and sniffing glue. And when you talk about such conditions, you must equally despise capitalism? The US and its ally in Indonesia killed some 1,3 million human beings. In the Phillipines, at least another million. That's... "At least" 2,3 million. Then let's add up to the Vietnam war... How many? 4,3 million people killed, just under the United States and their puppets? Let's talk about how many dies in this capitalist world we live today... How many is it? 30,000 every single day? How about the genocide in Sudan? Capitalism is thriving in Sudan. How about stoning and torture in Pakistan, a capitalist paradise? Anyways, why are you refering to the Soviet Union, when this thread is about Guevara, a man who opposed the Soviet Union? [/size]
Since you've researched Guevera outside the movie, why would you use the movie as a reference knowing full well that it's not accurate? [size=-1] Great job. You looked up some stuff in the dictionary. You proved your point so thoroughly. Not only did you describe me, you described yourself to a tee. Supporting a leftist ideal doesn't actually mean you're open minded. You're still as "closed minded" as I am, but your set of beliefs are different. A nation that has a communist system of gov't. Soviets, North Vietnam, China, Cuba, etc. They left in the early 90s. Do you really think they just popped in for a couple years before that? No, her entire family is of Russian decent. They lived their entire lives there dating back to the 15th century. Nice statistic. Back it up with something. An entire system of government fell and you expect it to ne rebuilt over night? Their economy is becoming steadily stronger, but just as during the Soviet era, corruption is still rampant. China has no government? Cuba has no government? Name a single communist nation at any point in history that didn't have a government. Also, try naming one that didn't have a single leader with supreme rule (dictator). You shouldn't make assumptions. I speak of the artificial famines created by the gov't right through to the fall of communism, not just in the 30s. There was no shortage of food. It was all witheld by the state. You hate capitalism, so you should hate monopolies. What do you call it when the government has complete and utter control over every market?
Would you define "communist system of gov't"? What is a communist system of gov't? "To av tre russere savner Sovjetunionen Moskva (NTB-AFP-DPA): 68 prosent av russerne angrer på at Sovjetunionen ble oppløst, ifølge en ny meningsmåling." "Tre firedeler av de spurte mener at Sovjetunionen var bedre skikket til å fremme økonomisk vekst enn dagens Russland." http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=168169 Haven't you read of the dictatorship of the proletariat? China has a government, yes. Cuba has a government, yes. There isn't a "communist nation". China has a capitalist mode of production. Although officially socialist, it's not. Cuba is officially socialist. Basics of marxism. Cuba has never claimed it was communist. Because Marxists believe that, in order to reach communism, a transitional stage is needed. This transitional stage is called "socialism" and/or "the dictatorship of the proletariat" There has been no "fall of communism". It seems you get all your information from anti-communist sources. Would you define "communist rule"? Yes, children sniffing glue and WW2 veterans freezing to death is "laughable". Billions of people work hard, but die dirt poor. I work hard. I am not rich. Probably never will be. How can you get rich on a dollar a day? Uh, I call it "government control over every market"? "Natural causes" as much as sweatshops are "natural". It is the fault of the system we have on this planet: Capitalism. There is plenty of resources for every person. But the 600 richest people on earth have as much money as 50 percent of the population. 50 percent of the poorest of the world population, that is. There is enough for everyone, but your system are killing thousands of people every day. Directly, and indirectly. Where in America? Venezuela? Colombia? Chile? Peru? Then you go on talking about the US: I remember visiting the US in '98. The streets were filled with poor people. Poor people were everywhere. Beggars... Beggars everywhere with huge signs, people with AIDS living on the streets. The only place I've seen more beggars was in Pakistan, and I'm not even sure if there were more beggars in Pakistan than in the US. Is that "opportunity and freedom"? Opportunity and freedom for the rich, yes. False. Why do you think Guevara opposed the Soviet Union? Funny your girlfriend, who lived under "communism", doesn't even know the meaning of that word. Why so curious? Regarding age, it is too kind of you to worry. Potentially I have many years left.
My sweet heart you want see beggars go to Russia ok darling . At least a BEGGAR in the U.S can make enough money in 1 day to be able to eat at MC DEEE or Dunkin Donuts ,the ones in Russia well you dont want to know. i saw a state run foster home for kids with out parents in russia "on tv back in the 1990s" it remind me of a german concentration camp. if they knew what a beggar ate in the U.S they would freak out.
Communism means a country where communists in a communist party are trying to create communism. So quit pissing around with your bullshit evasions about whether or not there are any communist countries. Nobody care about your abstract political arguments, we all know what we mean when we say communist countries. One could just as easily pretend that capitalism doesn't exist because there are no countries completely free of socialist policies. Che supported the Soviet Union, then he opposed it. Then he supported China. What difference does it make which model of murderous totalitarian government he preferred? If it wasnt so sick it would be funny to hear a communist living in the west tell people who suffered under it that they don't understand it.
Communism is a clasless, stateless society who follow the saying "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs". If the Republican party in the US changes its name to "Communist Party of United States, but the structure of the society does not change, is the US communist? He was firmly against the revisionist USSR. That's a fact. The USSR wasn't just the same old USSR all the way. There were different periods. And Che was opposed to the revisionism. When you start seperating the world in liberal and totalitarian and not in factual systems, then I thikn you have a real problem looking clearly into the situation. Maybe you should go to the library and read a bit or two, so you could actually understand what communism is, and is not.
You win. COMMUNISM RULES! And my guess is that you're 17 and live in Canada. Gilligan, Pointbreak, and I come together like Voltron to form.... Capitalist Pig Dog Crew!
a lot since Che Would not exist with out Russia and you can include Castro who was very happy he die in some jungle since Camillo and Che were far more popular than Fidel him self. The money and conections were supply by the russians.
"i lived part of it" = 1956 thru 1968 . "IN THE RIGHT PLACE" <-- you know the island 90 miles off Key West.
