Cheating

FinShaggy · Aug 20, 2013

deviate said:

There is definitely something to be said for communal, teamwork type endeavors but once it becomes institutionalized it's a problem. In college, I remember many times having semester long group projects with hot girls or dudes with a lot of drugs on hand that literally contributed nothing to the project. But at the time I didn't care because they were fun to party with during and after 'group meetings'. But even though nobody in our group graded them badly (we had to anonymously grade each other) the professor could tell they didn't do shit and they almost always got hit with lower grades for the course.

That's just the way certain elements of higher education are. But what you are advocating reeks of socialism/communism to me. It's really not my problem if someone else can't pull up their own self by their boot straps. It boils down to survival of the fittest in the end.

You don't like it? Sorry. While your idea is certainly based out of good intention, this ain't Jonestown.
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I feel as if most of the time it is just your own mentality making you think people doing drugs are stupid.

I smoke weed everyday, and went to some college classes on 2c-I when it was legal.

I had to work with a group that was ONLY cute girls, and they had no idea what any of the science was behind the psychology. Like they didn't understand Pavlovs dog, or anything.

We met at Chile's one night, and they were like "Shit we don't have anything, what do we do" I had all types of papers printed out, and ideas ready because I thought we were going there to share.

Then they told me I didn't have to do any more work, and fucking graded me like I didn't do anything because I didn't help them make a card board bus and paint it. But they told me not to fucking help, and I failed that class.

I understand that there are negatives to working in groups. As you can see from what happened to me.

But you guys are ALL ignoring that I am talking about teaching kids this from Kindergarten. This isn't something that would be sprung on kids that are in ANY other grade (until those kindergarteners got to that grade). It's not like once it started everyone would start being paired up for everything. Not everyone has been educated that way, so we wouldn't force it on them.

So stop comparing my idea to things you have experienced, because you have experienced NOTHING like this idea. The only thing that can compare is having siblings. But not many people hav enough siblings to really compare to a class.

roamy · Aug 20, 2013

FinShaggy said:

Thank you.
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your welcome

MeAgain · Aug 20, 2013

FinShaggy said:

But you guys are ALL ignoring that I am talking about teaching kids this from Kindergarten. This isn't something that would be sprung on kids that are in ANY other grade (until those kindergarteners got to that grade). It's not like once it started everyone would start being paired up for everything. Not everyone has been educated that way, so we wouldn't force it on them.
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Here is a paper titled Cooperative Learning in a Kindergarten Classroom that may interest you. It doesn't appear to be a scientific paper as there is no control group, etc., but it is interesting and shows that work is being done in this vein.

In addition, if I am reading it correctly it seems to involve a class of 21 students, one teacher, an intern, and an aide. That's a 7 to 1 ratio, which is pretty good and probably not realistic in most kindergartens.

Also I don't see any individual pre or post testing of the students before or after the group activity to see how much each student has actually learned individually. Retention of the lesson would also be a concern, after the post test another post test should have been given at a set distant time to test retention: individual learning verse group.

FinShaggy · Aug 21, 2013

thedope said:

To become institutionalized is something that happens to the insane. We don't need mandated educational systems. Such things as learning more about life than living with parents and society can teach could be available to those with a thirst for knowledge. Many disparities arise simply because we try to stuff things into people they are not vitally interested in. There is no requirement for a teacher to teach, they do it from compassion for the illiterate.
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I agree with this. I think school should mostly be made up of mostly field trips, so that kids can learn how their town and state work. And if the curriculum were taught "hands on", the kids would pay more attention.

FinShaggy · Aug 21, 2013

Meagain said:

Here is a paper titled Cooperative Learning in a Kindergarten Classroom that may interest you. It doesn't appear to be a scientific paper as there is no control group, etc., but it is interesting and shows that work is being done in this vein.

In addition, if I am reading it correctly it seems to involve a class of 21 students, one teacher, an intern, and an aide. That's a 7 to 1 ratio, which is pretty good and probably not realistic in most kindergartens.

Also I don't see any individual pre or post testing of the students before or after the group activity to see how much each student has actually learned individually. Retention of the lesson would also be a concern, after the post test another post test should have been given at a set distant time to test retention: individual learning verse group.
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That's pretty cool, it needs to be tested all the way through school with them though.

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