christians and fundamentalism

lozi ure an awesome girl!
i poray for u that u will one day become that wordy person coz i know its the desire of ure heart to be able to explain god gr8ness to the world....wot we desire god will bring it to pass if we hav faith and trust him at all times

 

This might explain it to some extent ... was this interpretation of the Bible taught to you? By whom?

And I'll think about your offer, but I'm actually quite a comitted atheist and this faithlessness is a very important part of my life. In fact I'd say it defines me and informs my understanding of the world, gives me my identity and makes me who I am. I've arrived at this understanding via a great deal of personal thought and learning. Existentialism, universal materialism and science is my own version of spirituality, as important to me as christianity is to you.

But if you fancy a pint sometime...

 

il private msg ya!
coz i dnt want to upt u under nay pressure

 

Brainwashing is a dramatic term that doesn't really add much to the debate, but I can't think of an easier shorthand for the process that I believe has taken place. In my experience, people who suddenly adopt a strong set of beliefs (be they political, religious or anything else) have been looking to fill an empty gap in their lives. The need leaves them vulnerable, and as a result, they're more likely to suspend their rational faculties. Do I believe you've been 'programmed' by somebody? No. Do I believe that you've been overwhelmed by an experience that has left such an impression upon you that you're no longer able to approach it rationally and look at it with an open mind? Absolutely.

It all comes down to the same thing though. You have a strong belief in christianity, and therefore a strong belief that you are right in your convictions. That's a belief that you're right, I'm afraid.

It's still a judgement. However nice you try and be about it, however much you love us sinners, you're still dividing the world up between christians and non-christians. The rest of us are inherently inferior because we accpet a life of sin and have no intention of repenting for it - or of even believing that it's sin in the first place. We'll all burn in hell while you go to heaven. That's both judgemental and divisive.

Again though, I come back to the same point. You (fundies) try and pass of your prejudices onto god and say "It's not me who's calling you a sinner - it's god". But you choose how you interpret christianity. Many christians interpret it in a far less exclusive way. By making that choice, you (not god) are choosing to brand us all as sinners.

And this is why people might believe christians to be brainwashed. Think about what you just said: "The bible's true. Why's the bible true? Because it says it is".

What about the rest of the bible? Where do you stand on Leviticus and homosexuality?

That's ridiculous. The bible has been added to and subtracted from many, many times since the writing of revelations. By your own argument therefore, the book you call the bible is false.

This goes right to the heart of the problem. When it comes down to it, all you have is a set of beliefs. Others have different beliefs. What makes christians right and everybody else wrong?

I find that quite a curious statement. The historical evidence for christ ever even existing is fairly thin on the gound, to put it mildly. I believe he did exist mind you, but there's bugger all documentation for this outside of the bible.

Sounding like a fanatic doesn't do you any favours. Talking like this actually alienates people.

 

Sounding like a fanatic doesn't do you any favours. Talking like this actually alienates people.
[/QUOTE]
im ont sounding lie a fantaic im sounding like me!
i passionate about god and showin his goodness,if that supposedly alienates me,i dnt particularly care!
id rather b were im at with god than live somnethin i dnt believe in!
or even limit myself.

 

There's different ways of talking about things. We all moderate our behaviour according to our audience. I talk openly about sex with my friends, but I wouldn't do so with my mother. I swear in my everyday life, but I wouldn't swear at a job interview. There's nothing wrong with having a little consideration for how you come across. It helps people understand you and it helps communication. If you really don't care about this, then you really are a fanatic.

 

ohhhhhhhhhhhh THAT!
okies yeah i get wotr u mean!
soz,dint mean to sound like that!
i guess only the xtina buddies can understand wot im goin on about,and i was actually speakin to them at that point,but yeah i see wot u mean!

 

i know exactly wot u mean!
iv never been the debting time myself but i try to share my faith with everybody,its not always about wot u speak but about the way u live....but of ocurse on the forums u only speak so its more difficult to express emotion and passion!
however,some xtinas cud hav been saved many many years,and still cud not b as wise as sum1 younger than then,wisdom given by god is not anything to do with ure age or how long u hav been christian but rather to do with ure own growthn in god!
meng,alothugh u hav not been saved long and ure a oyung christina keep on bein an example to ure faith.
if u desire wisdom ask of it from god,and u shal receive it!

 

So god approves of sex changes then?

 

So if I convert would God give me a viable renewable energy source, it would be in the best interest of his people as well!

 

That's a good point I think

I do believe in spirituality of some kind. I tend to lean towards cosmic consiousness to make sense of it all and more nature based religions for the worshipping side.

I do however use parts of buddhism to control my mind and help me find my strength, calm and control myself. I have only really started this about 6 months ago though.

I do think I believe in some kind of God too, maybe it's just an energy or something... but I have felt a great strength that's overwhelming in a good way sometimes.

I feel completely happy with where I am spirituality wise. I tend to find the answers I need through meditation and life experience not prayer.

Love Clairexxx

 

I believe the universe is a spiritual place, and I believe we have souls. How much of our personality survives death and what happens to our soul at that point is something that I have opinions on, but not certainties. I don't believe it's possible to be certain until you're dead

 

where did u get that from?

 

You made a typo. You said Meng was christina instead of christian.

 

heheheh!!! ohbyeah!LOL
thata quite funny!
*christian

 

Actually Meng, I'm with Arlia here, I don't think it matters how long you consider yourself to have been a Christian for, your view is just as valid , just as likely to be inspired as anyone elses'
I've been having a relationship with God for years and years and frankly all I am sure of is that the older I get the less I know for certain!

I guess I'm probabley the ageing liberal christian on these boards, I do have a personal relationship with God, we talk a lot, but the God I relate to is very much a New Testament God, a God of love. a God of hope and forgiveness.
I've always thought that the Old Testament was a set of guide lines for folk living in the desert in the five to ten thousand years before Christ. So as far as I am concerned the stuff about homosexuality was valid then, but not now.

What's interesting for me is that meeting the young Christians on this board and the american christians who hang out in The Hallowed Tree, I'm doing some re-evaluating......I am currently reading the Old Testament and praying on it.....


I'd love Arlia or Chickabean or Jaz, to tell me what it feels like to be born again! I have been to a conversion rally some years ago.....and nothing happened to me......when most people rushed to the front to receive the Lord, I just sat at the back wondering why I wasn't feeling any different!

I find that the teachings of Jesus have been a positive benefit to my life. However I don't think that means that my God is the only God, I think that other people can get to the same place by different means and call God by different names.

 

I think that's a brilliant attitude. I have no problem with christians who interpret their faith in such a fashion.

 

Morality has never been that complex an issue for me when you get right down to basics. I've never felt a need to seek answers - they've always seemed self-evident.

You lost me there. Not sure what you mean.

 

Well if you read my original post that's what I wanted ... because all we ever hear about christianity on these boards is from young fundamentalists and zealous christian fanatics, I was wondering aloud where the older, more mature, more moderate and progressive christians were and why they don't talk about their faith. The christian extremists do tend to shove their faith down your throat a bit; and that's often what prompts people like Herr Doktor and even sometimes me to take issue with being preached at especially on issues of intolerance like homophobia. Fundamentalism is not the only form of christianity, and as I said in my first post it's surprised me how common it seems to be becoming now, when moderate christians account for most of the christians I have met in my life up to the last couple of years.

I wouldn't say it's tosh, but I have no belief in any kind of spirituality. It's not tosh because it serves a perfectly understandable psychological need for many people, and in many cases belief in the spiritual is simply people giving a name to the unknown. I'd rather just call it the unknown. But I work on the assumption that there is no such thing as the extra-physical, there are no absolute truths, there is no absolute morality, people are just an interesting arrangement of biochemical matter and nothing more. Scientific method is as important to me as faith is to believers. The important difference between scientific method and faith is the openness of scientific method to the prospect of being proved wrong, and the fact that it is as objective an approach to life as we can possibly get. Something I find distasteful about most organised religions is their tendency to judge others simply for behaving in a different way. Organised religions usually represent a hegemony of received behaviour stemming from their various origins. As such they are a form of mental closure - what I strive for is mental openness.

 

Sorry to chop bits out... but that bit of your post means so much to me

I think that the relationship and warmth you talk of is the most important thing. I find "god" in so many different guises day to day. I relate to God (or whatever people like to call it) in so many different ways.

Love Clairexxx