christians and fundamentalism

Yes absolutely. I have no god at all but I have no doubt that the feeling felt by those who believe they speak to god are the same feelings I feel in other circumstances. We all have the same emotions, and the experience of what some call god is simply an emotion. For me it's all a question of giving names to things which are difficult to understand, let alone explain. For me the idea of a "god" works great as a metaphor for something we don't understand, and the metaphor serves precisely the same purpose as any literal belief.

 

Do you need a rule book to tell you what is right or wrong?

I think that knowledge comes from within. Partly brought out by society and experience true. The difference is that I know that I follow what I believe entirely.

Why do you knowlingly live in sometimes complete contradiction to how your bible says you should?

 

Then do something about it NOW while you are alive you nutter

Grrr It sometimes seems that "Christians" use this sin thing as an excuse to carry on doing what they are doing knowing Jesus has died for their sins.

Sorry, but when I know I've done something bad, I try to change it.

It probably sounds trivial to you, but the major thing in my life was to stop eating meat... i love the taste of meat, but I know it's wrong so I dont eat it.

I guess what I am saying is... if you feel something is wrong, don't be weak, just stop doing it!

 

Shameless plug...

Revelation

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39228

 

Don't start! Read the forum rules... this post is so obviousley trying to flame.

This is a debate with a lot of people not just Dok. Please don't try to take this over for your own agenda?

Love Clairexxx

 

That's what your body does and should do though ... millions of years of evolution have shaped your body to behave in this way ... what's wrong with it?!

 

Well she is hot

I think God has bigger fish to fry than you mate, but that's just an opinion I guess

Love Clairexxx

 

Interesting that you're the one setting out to be offensive yet again though, eh matthew? For someone who apparently values humility so highly, you don't appear to have very much of it. Now fuck off and let the adults have a civilised conversation amongst themselves, eh?

 

Awww, the sheer self-sacrifice dude! I feel for ya! On the bright side, all might not be lost. Looks like god wants you to get muchos laid!

In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

 

whoa us christians sure our stiring up some heavy shit round these parts lately. so much has been said since i was last on man this is a hot topic.
ok my memory is failing 'cause it's late so i'm just gonna start with the page showing and claire's point about doing something about sin, from an atheistic veiw jesus dieing for my sin is a bit like those funny nicoteen patches for smokers, i don't smoke cigerettes and so have never had to try and quit so not sure if the patches work but i think the metaphor works, for me the old testament laws help me see my sin and christianity is a personal faith, i see my sin and then jesus death on the cross then is the only way i can get rid of my sin. Dok i guess this could go in our debate since it is kinda derived from it, mainly that i think the problem was when i said homosexuality was a sin i shouldn't have. all sin i can talk of is that in my life that i then have to deal with, and instead of saying to others look at your sins perhaps instead i should just be advertising Jesus as the way out of what ever problems people are having people can go round with little cross shaped patches to deal with what ever they are trying to deal with.

 

I think christians would do a lot better if they stopped trying so hard to define what is and isn't sin. The bible doesn't offer a nice, comprehensive list that you can turn to, so it's always going to be open to interpretation. Perhaps like you say, Peppy, the best thing would be to worry about tackling your own sin, and that way you can work out for yourself (with guidance from god if you like) what's right and wrong.

 

I was just having a conversation about this with a friend and this thought occurred to me. As far as I'm concerned, anyone can believe anything they want to believe, and live their life any way they want to; it's not up to me to judge them. Some belief systems, particularly fundamentalist ones, seem to be based on shouting about how wrong other people's beliefs and ways of behaving are.

Any belief system which requires the judgement of others with different beliefs and different ways of behaving is not one based in tolerance.

Just how tolerant is your faith?

 

look, there is no way of getting around it...when it comes to biblical christianity..its gona be offensive! i foloow jesus christ, jeusus said he was the way the truth and life, noone gets to the father but through him. this is what i believe for me and for you...i know that is offensive and i wish it wasnt becuase it would be so much easier to talk about myfaith but that is the gospel message. we needed saving so jeuss came to die for us. thats the gospel and thats what i believe whole heartedly.
i guess through your eyes that deems me as judgemental and intolerant...but i would stress i do not carry intolerance in my life in a form which condemns and seeks to put down and rubbish other people. i do not argue christianity with people! believe it or not! i am merely expressing my opion in this thread becuase it is something i believe passionately in. in my day to day life i show my faith through, love and kindness and forgivensss and i seek to show god to people through who is and how amazing he is.
with regard to your view of tolerance in this instance i cannot contradict myself and say...you believe that, il believe this well all be fine...becuase the very essence of the gospel message in which i have put my trust is that we are all lost and we all need jesus!
but jesus said the world will hate christians, just as they hated him

 

Is there any possibility you may be wrong? Intellectual humility is another trait I admire and there doesn't seem to be much here. If there is no possibility you may be mistaken, how are you so sure? Where did this absolute concrete closure and certainty come from?

I admire people who use their faith as a quiet, humble personal behavioural framework which allows them to non-judgementally help others; it's precisely this kind of forgiveness and tolerance that I glean from the teachings of Jesus. And that must by definition include accepting that others can live their lives differently from you.

But you can't say you are tolerant, accepting and forgiving and then yell at people saying they are damned to an eternity in hell unless they follow you! These two positions are contradictory.

This confusion seems to be at the heart of the christian faith. You have the tolerant, progressive teachings of Jesus on one hand and an old testament superstition of the judgement and damnation of an omnipotent god on the other. I see these two things as at odds.

 

MANDY: Ohh. Oh, all right, then. You can see him for one minute, but not one second more. Do you understand?
FOLLOWERS: Yes.
MANDY: Promise?
FOLLOWERS: Well, all right.
MANDY: All right. Here he is, then. Come on, Brian. Come and talk to them.
FOLLOWERS: Brian! Brian! Brian!...
BRIAN: Good morning.
FOLLOWERS: A blessing! A blessing! A blessing!...
BRIAN: No. No, please! Please! Please listen. I've got one or two things to say.
FOLLOWERS: Tell us. Tell us both of them.
BRIAN: Look. You've got it all wrong. You don't need to follow me. You don't need to follow anybody! You've got to think for yourselves. You're all individuals!
FOLLOWERS: Yes, we're all individuals!
BRIAN: You're all different!
FOLLOWERS: Yes, we are all different!
DENNIS: I'm not.
ARTHUR: Shhhh.
FOLLOWERS: Shh. Shhhh. Shhh.
BRIAN: You've all got to work it out for yourselves!
FOLLOWERS: Yes! We've got to work it out for ourselves!
BRIAN: Exactly!
FOLLOWERS: Tell us more!
BRIAN: No! That's the point! Don't let anyone tell you what to do! Otherwise-- Ow! No!
MANDY: Come on, Brian. That's enough. That's enough.
FOLLOWERS: Oooooh. That wasn't a minute!

 

No, that's not factually correct. It's reported that jesus said that. Whether he actually did or not you have no way of knowing. Were you there?

 

In my opinion, the only way you can get rid of your sin is by growing up and taking responisbilty for your own actions.

Don't put it on someone else, even if that person is Jesus.

 

Just like the way we can never prove that it was really you who made that post

I guess it all boils down to faith. If someone has strong enough faith then nothing will budge them, no matter what they have faith in.

I wonder though if the "spiritual experience" that causes this type of faith is actually a psychological phenomenon, as the reported experience is often very similar for people of many different creeds.

 

Precisely. Our perception of the world is created by our mind. People who experience religious ecstasy are feeling exactly the same thing as others who achieve ecstasy and "spiritual" experiences through a variety of means. Be it meditation, shamanism with ritual dancing and drug taking, altered breathing patterns, rhythmic movement, appreciation of music... we're all pretty much the same and all feel the same things. Some choose to name this feeling "god".

It's always interested me how music and ritual is an important part of most religions; the breathing patterns involved in singing hymns and the psychological effect of choral music probably have historically had a part to play in people's experience of "god" in the christian faith.

 

Well historically it always has been. Achieving altered states of consciousness has been related to music and dance (not forgetting drugs ) and there's all sorts of scientific explanations for this, but frankly, hymns just evoke a mixture of extreme boredom and the desire to be very very violent. So, I guess that kind of fits in with Christianity then right? :X

*Edit. Ack. I know that should be written more comprehensively but I'm so friggin' tired!! I'm sure everyone gets my drift........