Christmas. A Christian holiday?

I really don’t think it’s a good idea to accept that Christianity is a hodge podge of Jewish and Pagan influences. As I mentioned before God did not approve of the Jews doing that and he will not approve of Christians that do it.

In actuality, it is the other way around John used it and later when the teachings of Plato were dragged into the Church it was said that Logos was derived from Greek Pagan philosophies.

I would say that the banning of Christmas had nothing to do with it being one of the darkest and most oppressive periods in your history. It could be that it would have been one of the darkest and most oppressive periods in your history with or without Christmas being banned.

To me it sounds a little like you are saying that if someone spayed graffiti all over the Mona Lisa, that nothing would be gained by removing the graffiti. God does not need the traditions of False Worship to make himself or True Worship more appealing!

As for the “original” Christianity being lost forever, it’s fairly easy to find it just start peeling away the layers of false worship that False Christianity has built up and there you are a Christianity that changes lives.

 

Yes it changes people - unfortunately, often into a somewhat narrow mould.

BTW - What about cribs? - I mean little model mangers etc which so many churches, schoools and homes have at Christmas. I ask because I wonder if you think God would accept them, as once more, they're not mentioned at all in the Bible.

On the civil war theme, I tend to think that luckily, a lot of the religious fanaticism of the brits got burned up at that time. Had it not happened, I think it's quite likely we would have seen a reversal of the so called reformation, and a return to catholicism (Charles I's preffered sect).
As it was the 'glorious revolution' brought an end to religious persecutions etc under William of Orange - except of course for those nasty catholics who had to wait until the 19th c for 'emancipation'. (20th in N.Ireland)

 

Thank you, I needed that last one. At core is it really Christianity that people feel, or is it the personal Conscience to focus on acting out the rather commercial OR EVEN class-valued status of fulfiiling themselves for other interested characters (only Potential though).

The basic Christianity is nothingness, unless the ethics is tolerating each other.

This is a junk e-post; transfer it to regular Posts of the fun Christmas holiday only if one wishes So.

 

What you're not getting is that Christmas is so filled with False Worship that the whole thing should be discarded. Asking about cribs and Christmas is a little like asking about saving chairs on the sinking Titanic.

 

Yes that is true but what is wrong with that?

Why would one want to rob, steal, kill and lie and yet not doing such things narrows ones life choices.

 

I don't think that's what I was getting at. I beleive in God, and I certainly don't want to see any increase in stealing, lying or any other negative behaviours.

What I do think though is this: if we cannot honour the birth of Jesus Christ, and celebrate according to the traditions we have recieved from our ancestors, then what can we celebrate?
It's a fact that for the real Christian, every day is Jesus birthday, because He is born ever anew in the heart of the those who are true.

I think we should celebrate Christmas, as a Holy event - and we can celebrate as our families have done in the past without any fear of incuring God's displeasure. On the contrary, I am certain that there Is joy in heaven wherever there is sincere devotion to God, however that is expressed.

I would also like to say that you are perfectly entitled to think as you do - perhaps my accusation of 'narrowness' was made unthinkingly. I am sorry if it was offensive.
We all have our own 'processes' going on - lets just pray that we can find ways to reconcile the differences that exist between sincere believers in God.

 

And OWB - I just think traditions are important for society. It's because people have lost touch with their spiritual traditons that there is so much social disintegration and breakdown going on. Maybe it's not so marked in the US, I don't know, but here in the Uk it's got to the point where any spiritual element in Christmas is now completely marginalized, even mocked at by the whores of the media. You know who I mean - I'm sure.

So somehow it seems better that people should preserve at least something of the past in their celebratons of Christmas, even if that comes more from tradition than scripture.
For one thing, it is a focus for family cohesion. Many families seldom sit down to a proper dinner around a table I'm afraid these days. Often, Christmas is the only time they see other relatives.

Do you see what I'm saying here?

 

Thanx, but No, it was not offensive.

I was quick to respond because there are those who see Christianity as overly restrictive, whereas I see it as God teaching you to benefit yourself.

As for your following traditions, I will say that Jesus was not a big fan of following traditions.

He was however a big fan of the truth and if he was on earth today, he would probably be asking Christmas celebrators;
Why do you make such a big deal of such a falsehood?
Isn’t it common knowledge that I wasn’t born in Dec.?
Isn’t it common knowledge that the date Dec. 25 is borrowed from pagan worship?
I’m I not; the way, the truth and the life?
So in what way did you think that this falsehood borrowed from paganism would honor me?
Do you not know what happened to the Jews, when they borrowed from false worship and called it true worship?
Do you want the same things to befall you?

As for reconciliation, although it has a nice ring to it, Jesus himself pointed out that in the last days there would be two groups calling themselves Christian and rather than reconciling the two groups; to one of the two groups Jesus would say get away from me you workers of lawlessness, I never knew you.

 

God will burn you forever in a pit of torment beyond imagination if you embarrass him in front of people.

But he loves you.

Doesn't make much sense does it?

 

that doesn't make any sense at all.
Hell is nothing more than mankinds grave
and death is nothing more than sleeping

 

Pardon me but what has this to do with whether Christmas is a Chrisian holiday or not?

 

So true, it’s a shame that people don't even bother to read the Bible before they begin telling others what they think is wrong with the God of the Bible.

 

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

 

Again, so true; you can see it all around us but seeing as I was mostly referring to Rudenoodle, I don't think the part about having a form of godly devotion would apply to him, seeing as he's an atheist.

 

hmm. I didn't know that. Then I guess I don't understand why he would say that about "hellfire", which is one of the most slanderous teachings in churches and makes God look like the worst God possible, just like Satan wants it to seem. But if people would do waaay more than just peer into the bible they could actually find out what kind of personality that God has, what he likes and dislikes and become his friend out of respect, awe and godly fear and serve him with complete obedience that is not burdensome, but out of love.

 

Because "hellfire" is exactly what you say it is, it makes it easy for atheists to ridicule the “Bible teachings” and “prove” that there is no God.

The problem is that if you start with a false premise like; believing that what the churches teach is what the Bible says, then that makes anything they “prove” as false as the premise they started with.

The same could be said for the holidays like Christmas, they just make it easier for atheists to slander God because they are already slanderous to God by saying that lies and half truths honor God and that God somehow approves of them.

 

WOW! Thanks for the above post. Those facts really do show how far Christmas is from being a Christian holiday..
I thought this was kind of funny, sad, whatever. I was over at a friends the other day and they had a christmas tree with presents stacked up high around it. He said his wife had b ought all of the gifts, but also said she had spent all of thier money on presents and he showed me his fridge and there was nothing inside and they have 2 little girls. Seems holidays screw peoples priorities up, especially this one.

 

All that good Northern European mythology leaves out the earliest roots of the red suit with white flecks of color and the trip down the sooty stove pipe. The far northern SHAMANS used to eat a particular red with white flecked mushroom and make trips up and down thru the smoke hole of the lodge that symbolized the comings and goings to heaven and the world TREE. There was also a far northern attachment to the north star or pole star (north pole) and the legions of little people and spirits...does all of this sound familiar in a vague sort of way?
while we are looking at myths we can look at mother goose and see her roots in the shamanesses or "night fliers" of northern Europe who's chosen spirit animal was the white snow goose. These old gals used to get loaded up on on psychodelics the imaging these flights of fancy on the white goose...thus mother goose. If you research deeply enough into extreme northern shamanism you will find that I am right on both counts.

 

Well perhaps you shouldn't really be posting on this internet forum, as I don't recall God asking us to do so anywhere in the Bible.
I see no difference between this and Christmas mistletoe etc.

One came from 'paganism', the other from 'materialism'.