Corby guilty, gets 20 years

i think there is a medium between what your both saying. Retro is articulating the perspective of the indonesian government and the otherside is the australian public..all these issues are being covered and speculated over so much on television at the moment that it is making nothing of it...it is over-theorising. Yes it is horrific what is happening to Corby, i fi had a wish i would free her (whimsical thinking intendede)...but it is not like that. a tragedy happened in her life, and it takes away her quality of life, her freedom in life...but we cannot expect that the indonesian judicial system is going to look upon things in the same light as we do. and bounds in race and culture do seperate opinion...and that is all we are looking at inside...our opinion of how we would feel if it happened to us.
that girl has a daunting reality to look upon, and it is a shame. but we cannot change it. it is not in our country. and most of the action taking place at the moment is more harmful than anything. we can only hope they let her live most of her sentence in an australian prison.
pretty sad fucking news really

 

Actually, we dont have a bill of rights, america does, we do not, and so therefore, one could suggest that no we dont believe in inalienable rights... Infact australians do not even legally posess the right to freedom of speach. Even if we did believe in inalienable rights, Australia does not posess the power to dictate indonesian law.
Inalenable rights in australia does not give australians a mandate to trott around the globe shitting on other countries becuase we have'inaleinable rights and you cant touch me' what a load of post modern bullshit!

Innocent until proven guilty is an american, australian and english standard, but in france, youre guilty until you can proove your innocence. Doesnt make our version more right than the other just because we use that system

As for the sumggling, its true also that many non-indonesians sumggle drugs into the country because its better quality and also because many australians and other non-indonesians prefer to buy from non-indonesian dealers so that they are not set up by indonesian dealers working with the police. Aussie dope is also charged at a price that is about 3x higher than over there.

 

actually i heard on one media report that the indonesian's also believe in innocent until proven guilty....it's just a matter of evidence.

 

Yeah, i read that australia didn't have anything protecting their citizens rights, and that all rights are 'implied.' Scary.

However, in the UN's Universal Declaration of Human rights, EVERYONE has the right to a fair trial under the presumption that you are INNOCENT until proven guilty.

Post modern bullshit? It's bullshit to think that everyone doesnt have inalienable rights. This is why dictators are allowed to run free around the world. "Who are we to tell others they cant murder their citizens, they cant hold them indefinitely in detention, who are to tell others they cant rape their women..they cant scar them through female circumcision?" All cultures are not equal! SOME ARE BETTER! We have the responsibility to stand up and make sure everybody is guaranteed certain rights. We're pretty pathetic beings if we allow people in other parts of the world to be murdered, persecuted, and tortured while we sit and play xbox and listen to music.

 

you know what? i reckon we should take it up the a*se as usual, we can talk about it as usual and do nothing. my advice is to not buy indonesian goods/services or to visit the country. these kinds of backward regimes that the politicians and military have been supporting for years understand only the power of the wallet. of course the indonesians other little faux pas was executing about one third of the population of east timor when they opened their franchise over there. unfortunately not much was made of that in "the telegraph", what most people don't realise that was gough whitlam was responsible for the massacre when he gave the green light to the indonesians that he wouldn't lift a finger to help our old wartime buddies. as for corby- i think we all know and understand that the indonesian legal system is a basket case and if a couple of hundred thousand deaths wasn't going to move anyone to action then what real chance does corby have? by boycotting indonesian goods it will only mean that more foreign aid from the tax payer will have to be given but at least your hands are clean.

 

babe eeek I was only talking about the few people who hate aussies and westerners... I never once said I hated anybody so I am not a racist okay I was saying some of them are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but when you're talking about the justice system its obvious that Australia is more moral than Indonesia, would you disagree?

It really upset me that you jump down my throat like that. sorry if you took what i said the wrong way.

 

I dont beleive that anyone who lives within the confines of one society, as both you and I do, has the correct standpoint to objectively decide what is more moral when comparing two countries.

 

There is a universal morality. In sensible countries anyway, an obvious right and wrong.

 

Just because we havern't experienced a lot of the harsher cruel things that go on in other countries doesn't mean we can't say its immoral.
They don't know any different cos they've been brought up this way, true..which is why it gives us a better view. (or at least for our standards its immoral)

 

now here's a topic for discussion!

and what do you propose Universal Morality to be? and i suppose you live in one of the "sensible" countries... how lucky.

these things are subjective. the young demonstrators protesting outside the australian embassy in jakarta yesterday believe firmly that the sentence given corby was too light.

 

what the heck, my dear!

could not the same sentence be used by your opposite as directed towards you? how can you say we have a "better" view?

 

so indonesia locked up a much needed tourist for their failing economy? smart move.

 

There wasn't undenieable proof that Corby was guilty. That's the travesty of her getting 20 years plus a fine.

 

okay, who was the loser that gave me bad rep for this without leaving their name!?!?!?

 

I can't stand when people do that
Rep doesn't even matter why the hell give any without putting a name or if not that at least a comment.....

 

IN MY OPINION, a country that is 'used' to harsh conditions and more violence might not see Shapelle's case as immoral!
When I say we have a better view, I mean we have a less harsh society so something like this 'seems' a lot more immoral to us, than them!

If you disagree fine, but please stop bitching at me for my opinion.

 

mistymop....

sorry, i was definitely not bitching at you.... sorry if it sounded like it.
i was referring to your saying "we've been brought up this way....we have a better view"

just making a point, which i think retro is also making, that these things are subjective, and to the aussies who kick up a fuss about indonesia's complete lack of morals (ie drug smuggling shouldn't deserve 20years/life in prison/death sentence/etc), they are under the influence of the way THEY'VE been brought up. so if everyone's under the influence of another nation's way of thinking, how can you say anybody's got the upper hand?


you did say, "at least for our standards it's immoral", & i totally agree.... that's all i was saying. lol

cos there's kids our own age in indonesia right now bitching and protesting about her sentence being too lenient... & i don't think we could say they're evil! lol

peace,
sophia

 

I just think this is all crap, what about the 150 other aussies or there abouts in jail forthe same thing, no one cares a damn about them, cos they're not dolly birds.... it shits me! this whole thing has been hyped out of proportion, and you know what, sitting her complaining about it doesnt make any difference.

I think were all suffereing from themisconception that in the real world, you have rights... I dont know about the rest of you, but I"m very quickly finding out that this world isn't fair like they told us it would be in school

 

that's right...
and when you leave the familiar protection of your own cushy country to travel somewhere with much different laws and systems of government, you need to beware.

corby herself said, the only mistake she made was not locking her bag.
whether or not she's guilty,
i'd agree very much with her if she's innocent!!

lesson to be learned: lock your bags if you're heading to a sketchy country,
or for that matter, if you're going anywhere.
people have it in their heads that the whole world should look after them no matter where they are. if you fuck up when you're out of your country, there could be big shit to pay.

...lol@ sketchy country

 

I wasnt really refering specifically to Shapelle, just to the whole system. Of course I care for others in her position I just don't know about them to use them as an example.

Sorry for jumping at you
I agree with what you are all saying..its just a damn shame that in world so far progressed we still must fear going to other countries. Nobody knows the truth about what happened so we can't really judge.

I guess for the fact that she may very well be innocent, it just seems like such a damn shame, that a failure in the system has led her to a life of torture or possibly death.