Could God have designed the Bible to only have one interpretation?

The center (displaced):

Speak straight! lol : D

He came to love everyone, not "save" them! The church grew from its casting doubt on the instincts, and then offering itself as authority. Among its founders and members alike has always been the denial ( and worse ) of everyone that refutes a 'rule' of love and...loves.

 

:smilielol5:Yeah, if two people have the same understanding of something they become the same person.

It is you that adds a "moralistic persecution" to what has been said, I said nothing of the kind and that is your judgement of the matter.

Actually, it seems that you are the one that has lost touch with reality. When did I ever say that birth is sin? but we do inherit the sinful condition when born.

What for? Would the perfect really want to be imperfect and if they did would that be a good thing?

I learned as a youth that there is no point in being different just to be different, especially if that difference is detrimental.

I do not have a problem with another person willingly risking or even giving up their life to save the lives of others.

In fact, hopefully that is what I would do if the situation occurred.

Do you really want to imply that such ones that do so are doing something wrong or that we should not be thankful to such ones or that we should tell such ones that we don't want their help?

That is your problem and so, no, I do not thank you for trying to foist it upon me.

 

But Fred, you know I'm talking about possession of the meaning, its origination, and not only its being shared...don't you?!
: D
Two people, even in the matter of one understanding between them, nevertheless have two understandings. This is maths, not just the semiotics of self and selves!

No, your belief in 'sin' does. That's not only my judgement.

There you go.

Does what's perfect have to stand still for its own good? For yours?!

: D

Ah Fred, changing, creating... you ask me if it is a good thing! lol You ask me badly - I mean, did I say that change from perfection would mean its being met in the opposite? You did Fred! I didn't even imply it! My understanding of 'more' is not yours to share it seems! : D

That's wisdom right there Fred! And it can remain as wisdom if you grasp that there's always a point in being different, that there is always your difference, that you couldn't alter its inherency if you tried! Now...what do you want to be the same as Fred?! : D

No Fred, not mine, I'm not the one claiming Jesus has saved my life by dying. To give ones life does not mean to hand it over in exchange, but to bestow it. His death on the cross was no "ransom-sacrifice." That is a sickening lie.

 

Nice song and dance, can you do the boogaloo as well?

And just how does my belief in sin become persecution or are you just making up definitions again?

You can do better than just this vague comment on what has been said or at least I hope so.

I said nothing about standing still, the discussion was about a perfect person wanting to change and the only change from perfection is imperfection.

Once again, what other change is there? Something that is perfect can not become more perfect. You are not even making sense.

Yes it is wisdom but as you point out, you don't understand it.

It is the truth. The only thing that makes it sickening to you is that you don't want to accept it.

Also the Greek word is stauros which indicates an upright stake and not a cross, so Jesus did not die on a cross.

PS Who is this Fred person you keep talking to? Are you starting to have hallucinations?

 

Consider the lilies of the field that neither toil nor spin but none are arrayed such as these.

A flower begins a seed and grows a seedling that grows a plant that blossoms, and the blossom forms again a seed. Changing perfection. Perfection in this moment leading to perfection in the next. Perfection is a living quality, not a static state.

 

You're onto something there Fred! : D

By believing everyone to be in it.

Of course, but can you? This is what you wrote: --

"Actually, it seems that you are the one that has lost touch with reality. When did I ever say that birth is sin? but we do inherit the sinful condition when born."

If there is no sin in birth, how is it inherited when we're born? It isn't.

No, the only change from perfection is more perfection, to which you say:

Everything becomes what it is by changing, not into what it isn't, but by extension of itself. Your opposition in this comes to nothing.

How did I point that out?

No, it is the fact that it can be accepted as 'truth' that makes it sickening to me.

You are a pedant, Fred. He was tortured and killed. He died nobly.

: D

It's you! Remember this thread Fred!

 

That you are a song and dance man and that you have no clue what you are talking about? Okay.

As I suspected, you are making up your own definitions.

Sure but what is the point if all you're going to do is avoid an actual discussion?

Even you can do better than this.

Once again you show you have a very poor grasp of the English language.

By going off onto a nonsensical tangent that showed you have no idea what the actual wisdom in the statement was.

Okay I get it, self sacrifice is sickening to you, which again shows what kind of person you are.

Well I just thought you would be interested in the truth but again you show you're not.

Also you say Jesus "died nobly" and what do you say was so noble about his death? You seem to be saying he died for nothing.

I remember the thread and you are the only one talking to an imaginary Fred.

 

Fred, you don't dance? In anything?!

Fred, I'm not the one who thinks we are all in "sin". Who else could make up my definitions?

I have avoided nothing of discussion.

Than perfection? Not quite. So you don't think the only change from perfection is more, but imperfection. So what?

Fred, do you really want to compare my grasp of language with your own?! LOL

I know you're not avoiding discussion Fred, it's ok, there are some things you simply don't know how to discuss! It's alright. We're all learning! : D

No Fred, it is your idea that you have rights, a claim, not to the life of Jesus by virtue of your own, but on his death by the lie of a 'divine' ransom that is sickening to me. I can keep on telling the truth here because I am actually sickened by his death, so by all means let's continue to get to the bottom of all this---if you dare.

He died bravely. Everything noble is brave. I fear you're a bit of a coward when it comes to the crunch Fred! lol

-"I do not have a problem with another person willingly risking or even giving up their life to save the lives of others. In fact, hopefully that is what I would do if the situation occurred."-

LOL

That is true Fred! But it was you yourself that introduced us! : D

 

It is a fact of nature that all life yields to more life. The giving of life unto life is the most basic cause. It is a perversion to think that life can be sacrificed in order to bring life. It is what the aztecs did and they were found by their christian conquerors to be vile heathen because of it.

Blood sacrifice is a primitive ignorant practice that has been enshrined by some as divine justice and as such, the blood lust is never satisfied. And even though in their scheme of things, christ is sacrificed to redeem all mankind, no one is safe from the demand that everyone make the ultimate sacrifice as well and if you don't, you will be thrown under bus as, "a type of person that you are"!

 

This seems to have been added so I'll answer it, now.

There is no sin in birth it is a natural process and as such is sinless in of itself. As for inherited imperfections, those do not come from the process of being born or birth but come from the makeup of the parents. I seems you need a refresher course in science.

 

I can't speak for your imaginary friend but I love to dance, I just don't use it as an avoidance device like you do.

Just thinking that all mankind is in sin is not persecution by any dictionary definition but then like I say you tend to make up your own definitions.

Perhaps you would like to think so but that doesn't make it true.

It not that I just think so, it is the way perfection works. Quite simply if something is perfect it can't be made more perfect.

So what? Your arguing otherwise indicates you are not being honest in the discussion.

I can't speak for your imaginary friend but with your making up your own definitions and seeming lack of understanding of what has been said, it would call into question your grasp of language.

I can understand how your imaginary friend would have some things he simply doesn't know how to discuss, he's imaginary, the real question is why do you?

You can call it anything you want but that doesn't change what it is and what it has done for mankind and it is that fact sickens you.

Again it is his self sacrifice that sickens you and that tells a lot about who you are.

If you just want to talk about his ransom sacrifice, that's fine but it is you that seems to be sickened by the thought of it, are you sure you want to discuss it.

Again I can't speak for your imaginary friend but as for my saying "hopefully" making me a coward, no, it doesn't make me a coward but it does make me realistic because in reality when "it comes to the crunch", when it is your life on the line for another's life, no one knows how they will act and to say otherwise is mere unfounded arrogance.

Okay, just so you know that Fred is imaginary, admitting it is the first step toward getting getting help.

As for introducing you, no, I merely used an illustration that had the name Fred in it, it is you that seems to have decided that somehow Fred was a real person that you should talk to.

You do know what an illustration is don't you?

 

So imperfection is sinful, or is even sin itself?! How?! And there you are telling me you put no moralistic slant on the matter! : D

Fred, heaven forbid we make a scientific breakthrough in this thread of yours, but you are speaking of natural processes now! What happened to Gods plan for us to get busy with his book?! LOL

 

Fred, why do you avoid saying what you think I'm avoiding? "Discussion"? What in particular? I'm here.

As thedope says, there is no idle thought. Do you think I want to punish you or something?! lol What you're really persecuting here is a more intelligent perspective. : D

Don't be a bore Fred, what is it you think I've avoided discussing? Out with it and we can discuss it!

Yes it can, by extension. I hate to repeat myself Fred, but you always avoid my points by rolling your eyes and asking me if I can boogaloo etc etc.

Not at all Fred. But this is the essence of your own personal argument with everything that disproves what you think to be true, isn't it? How could what can disagree with your belief possibly be honest, huh Fred?! I mean, it's yours! How dare it even try to! What impudence! What sin! : D

While it may be said that you're something of a good sport to try and write with me, it is also the case that you're not very sporting! Think of this as an exercise Fred! It's boring to waste words in stumping understanding with the assumption it has been stumped.

Why do I have things I don't know how to discuss? It's because I don't know everything Fred. I don't know how to 'discuss' eternity for instance. lol

The difference is that I've called it what it is, and you have not.

What about his death is there really to speak of? Not much more than I have already spoken of, ie. that he died without fear of death. You haven't managed to speak of it beyond intimating how wonderful it has been for us all. Are you afraid to talk of his life in case it reveals just how little of 'the life' you put into practice, Fred?

Not the specifics of the action, of course not, but they do know that they will act. Or at least, some of us do. Keep your hopes up I guess.

Hang on a sec Fred...I think I've just realized what all your fuss is about! You don't like me calling you Fred?! : D You can tell me Fred! I can change! I can call you whatever you like! lol

 

One more thing, your insistence that it's the self-sacrifice of Jesus that sickens me-

Are you trying to sicken me further? Do you want my disgust?

Why, when I've told you what sickens me? Can't you handle it? Murder and torture are not sickening to you? You think Jesus was guilty? That he somehow deserved death? But why am I asking you these questions?!

Only the way in which Jesus died was noble. What he died for was not. Yes, that means what you think it does. He didn't die for anyones 'sins', but because of them. Were people amazed at how someone without fear goes about dying? Most still are. Aren't you, Fred?

 

If you'll notice, I really didn't say that imperfection is sinful or is sin itself, although I must that in a way I did imply it. The definition of sin is to miss the mark, so any imperfection could be defined as sin.

As for a moralistic slant, of course I put a moralistic slant on things, it is just not "moralistic persecution" as you phrased it.

You really will use any excuse to try and support a failed argument won't you. Next thing I know you'll be trying to dust off your old buck and wing.

 

I'm not avoiding anything, I just thought your memory was better than that.

That's a stretch even for you.

Again with your imaginary friend, you should really get that looked at.

By extension? You call that making a point? At least try to make some sense. The words being used are perfect and change. You can extend perfection all you want but that does not change perfection it merely extends it.

Many have disagreed with me and I have never considered it to be dishonest discussion but when you start making up your own definitions and such to try disprove what has been said that is just dishonest discussion.

I'm sorry that you find my trying to hold you to an honest discussion as not very sporting but you're playing fast and loose with the rules of honest discussion is not very sporting either.

Okay.

You have called as you see it but it is easy to see that often what you have called it has no basis in reality.

What do you want to know? I'll try and help you out.

Like I said; "unfounded arrogance". Next time you risk your life for someone else get back with me.

Fuss? I was just worried you were losing your marbles.

 

Oh it's the insistence that sickens you.

No, I am not trying to sicken you further but I'm not going to stop telling the truth just because you find it unpleasant.

Yes murder and torture are sicking to me as well, I never said that it wasn't but in this case there is more to it than just that.

No. In fact if he was guilty and deserved death, his death would be as pointless as you make it out to be.

Perhaps because I can show you the answer to your questions.

Yes what Jesus did amazes me and always has but his death was not pointless, as you try to make it out to be.

 

per·se·cu·tion [pùrssə kysh'n]
(plural per·se·cu·tions)
n
1. the persecuting of somebody: the subjecting of a race or group of people to cruel or unfair treatment, e.g. because of their ethnic origin or religious beliefs .

This is a grave error waterbrother. If you look at a woman with lust in your heart you have already fornicated. We have discussed this aspect before. A death sentence is a death sentence, no matter the form it takes.
Your mind is set on sin and on the insistence of death. God is not set on sin. Christ is not set on sin. Why are you set on sin?

 

Yes what Jesus did amazes me and always has

You do realise of course, that the amazing things that were done through Jesus, were not done BY Jesus, but by our Lord God and saviour who had chosen Jesus as the earthly host body, through whom he could reaveal to us his perfect nature, his awesome power, and the great sacrifice that he makes for us.

Even the words spoken through Jesus were not his, as he himself said, "I say nothing on my own authority, but only that which I am commanded to say by my Father."

Deuteronomy 18: 18; YHVH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses, "I will send them a prophet just like you from among their own people; I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command. He will speak in My name."

When, in reference to the body of Jesus, which was the Temple of the spirit of our Lord by which Jesus was filled as he rose from the baptismal waters as the heavenly voice said, "You are my son,THIS DAY I have begotten thee," The Lord God said through Jesus, "Tear down this Temple and in three days I will raise it up."

And we know from the apostles, who all tell us again and again, who raised Jesus from death and bestowed upon him divine glory and gave to him eternal life and a position higher than any other man will ever receive, and that is, at his right hand side within his glorious throne of Godhead to the body of the Most High in the creation.

Acts 17: 31; For He, (Our Lord God and Saviour) has fixed a day (The seventh period of one thousand years from the day that Adam ate of the forbidden fruit, and died in that first day at the age of 930) in which HE will judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN He has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone, by raising that MAN from death.

From the "Book of Jubilees," 4: 30; "And He, (Adam) lacked 70 years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: 'On the day thou eat thereof ye shall die.' For this reason Adam did not complete the years of that first day; for he died during it."

We are now at the closing of the sixth day, soon, the great "Sabbath," The Day of the Lord begins.

Then every person will be held accountable for their wrong doings/sins against their fellow man while they live. For nothing will be hidden that will not be brought to light in those days within the Day of the Lord. For to do wrong to one of the body of the Most High in the creation, of which body, the Lord, is the supreme personality of Godhead that develops within that body, is to sin/do wrong against the Lord God our saviour, whose body they defile.

 

No, but do you know why it is you insist that it's the self-sacrifice of Jesus rather than his death that sickens me? Will you avoid answering this question directly? I don't mind if you roll your eyes in answering, Fred! : D

Your 'truth' is that God sacrificed Jesus. A lie. In not resisting his own persecution, Jesus showed that his life was his own. In giving himself to the law, he made a statement, nothing more. In this and only this, in loving even those who killed him, did he 'do the will of the father' ( so to speak.) His death has saved no-one. Followers of christ are given over to interpretation of truth. The will to create it in themselves, is as it were, suspended.

What more? The bloodthirstiness behind the acts? You honestly think there is something fundamentally 'spiritual' about dying! Something divine in the departure of the spirit! Should I be ashamed that I am disgusted?

That's backwards thinking. His innocence doesn't make something exceptional of his death. His life was exceptional before the people who were afraid of it put him to death.

I like calling you Fred! If you don't, just let me know. : D

There are more words being used than those two! That you didn't comprehend me doesn't mean I didn't make sense. How can the extension of perfection not change it?! This is the only sense in which it can be changed at all! You are unfamiliar with the extent that logic reaches for, its limitlessness! You are always settling upon your truths Fred, you pursue them only insofar that you do settle upon them! They have much more fun with me! : D

Again, you never say what those are, you just say that I am making them. You shouldn't concern yourself too much that I am able to define things Fred!

The only rule to honest discussion is that it remain honest. Again, I ask that you let the discussion take care of itself, and, since you believe it, let 'God' decide where we are or aren't being honest.

For you, but you never provide an example Fred! Everything has its basis in reality. You are going to have to be specific, or keep on calling me out...for nothing.

Do you value the life of Jesus over his death? Or are you so dull as to find them synonymous?

Fred, I'm not the one who said they'd hope to be able to risk ones life for anothers. lol

No, it is a persecution. If you had, rather than say everyone is a sinner, moralized in the manner of saying something of everyones potential as a lover, it would have been a blessing.

If any kind of imperfection can be defined as sin, as opposed to being sin, the question remains, why do you define it as such?

You've lost me there Fred, I remember the boogaloo, but that's going too far. : D