Democracy in Iran

To you, to the rest of us,

Expansionism,

excerpt
(more commonly expansionism refers to the doctrine of a nation's expanding its territorial base (or economic influence) usually by means of military aggression)

Which Iran has done in all 3 of the examples i posted.

If you're trying to compare this in acreage, Iran is trying to claim thousands of acres, it's a little more than a dispute when you use military aggression to take what isn't yours.




BTW, i lost track how many times has Israel been mentioned so far? Do you get bonus hippy points per mention? just curious.

 

1) No. It involved Poland, Czechoslovakia, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Austria, Italy, and I think some others. Not to mention it coincided with two world wars.

2) You don't give up land that isn't yours to begin with.

3) Sure. There are Jews in China, Afghanistan, Yemen, among others that lived there for thousands of years too. How about we create a Jewish state in the middle of China and push the Chinese into ghettos so then you can give smidets of infertile land "back" and if the Chinese are not satisfied we brand them terrorists and invade again? Or would you prefer Ethiopia instead? Or perhaps Italy strikes your fancy a bit more?

 

I'm not a hippie, first of all. I don't believe in spirits, I don't have dreads, I don't burn incense, none of my clothes sport flower designs, I do not do drugs, I am not a pacifist, nor am I an environmentalist, nor a animal rights person, not even a human rights person, I eat meat, I support industry and technology, I don't think Western civilization is evil, and I use condoms. Got it?

Secondly, I'm not calling the Iran-Iraq war anything other than a war. The problem is the thread is not addressing the Iran-Iraq war, it's addressing internal Iranian elections.

I think Iranian elections are an Iranian problem. Iranian wars or border disputes are an international problem that would indeed merit the intervention of the UN if those are the rules we're playing by.

 

Right, so if they'd just stayed home exterminating jews it would have been an internal problem though right? I mean that's your logic isn't it?

You also don't give up land that people are using to attack you until they agree that you have a right to exist, and in peace.

Its not about 'branding' people terrorists. Murdering an olympic team, blowing up a wedding, taking an axe to a child - these things are terrorism because they are terrorism, not because anyone has been 'branded'. I always find it odd that people start sneering and getting all sarcastic when you say that taking an axe to a child is terrorism.

You are also pretending that everthing was fine and one day the jews arrived, stole the land and pushed everyone out. This is ridiculous. Jews have always lived in Palestine and the first jewish state was actually quite small. Had the Arabs not tried to invade it three times they might not have found themselves in this position today.

Israel has a right to exist. This is not an extremist, zionist, lunatic crazy fringe view. This is a basic precondition to any peace.

 

Nobody has suggested invading Iran over these elections.

 

Yes. But we're not talking iffa, woulda, coulda, shoulda. And the reason for my logic is that "ethnic" conflicts are actually material conflicts. And all international in nature. It is too easy for "ethnic" conflicts to be manipulated for geopolitical gain which is, furthermore, the raison-d'etre of ethnic conflicts. Finally, the line has to be drawn somewhere. Otherwise, the L.A. Riots of '92 may have been deemed intervention-worthy, etc.

Some peace!

 

So, covert destabilization tactics and propaganda and "international pressure" are fair game?

Again, who is the U.S. to say anything about elections? Who elected the U.S. to be the spokesman of democracy? Has Iran butted into Florida in 2000?

 

Iran is fighting to claim oilfields beyond its borders.

here's how you replied when i used the Iraq Iran war as an example

So why keep mentioning Israel?

 

The person who first brought up Israel was Hipstatic, if you check. The reason I responded was because I wanted to make the distinction clear between internal and international affairs. Not that Iran has never or will never be involved in international affairs, but that this particular issue isn't one.

My point is simple, elections are an internal affair of whatever country holds them.

Further, the U.S. and Westerners have not been voted the spokesmen or policemen of democracy and should refrain from making formal statements about the internal affairs of other countries like most countries do.

 

Actually I am. Was the holocaust an internal issue?

Commie.

No it isn't, that's ridiculous.

Well that's fine, lets draw the line where we think it should be drawn.

Well look at it this way. Israel withdrew from the Sinai (which was part of Egypt) and signed a peace treaty with them in 1979, and in the thirty years since the two nations have been at peace.

Israel withdrew from Gaza, and then Hamas (which states the destruction of Israel as one of its goals) was elected and started launching rockets at Israeli civilians.

Now I think the Israel-Egypt thing was the way to go, i.e. trade land for peace, but apparently Hamas thinks a better strategy is take the land and then make more war. So when you say 'some peace' maybe you should be telling that to Hamas.

 

Iran is fighting to claim oilfields beyond its borders.

here's how you replied when i used the Iraq Iran war as an example

So why keep mentioning Israel?

 

Sure why not?

Who's to say they can't?

Nobody.

No I think they were too busy having a holocaust denial conference. Or maybe having one of those military parades with the giant rockets that say "death to Israel" on the sides.

Yet Iran interferes in the affairs of all its neighbors, often violently.

Stealing an election may well be an internal affair. But I find it hard to understand why you find it so upsetting that a country would be criticised for repressing its citizens. Its criticism. Are the mullahs so thin skinned? Will we hurt their feelings?

So criticising Apartheid would have really upset you then. Who are we to speak up for Nelson Mandela?

 

Don't you find your example in the least bit ironic? The U.S. actually voted for Apartheid for many years when it was in its economic interest (in other words, it still intervened). It also doesn't seem to much mind Saudi Arabian rigging. Mugabe was ok for decades until white colonials were expunged. Saddam and Obama were also ok until they were not. The list goes on.

And that's my point. Criticize all you want, but call a spade a spade. The U.S. has an imperialist interest in the destabilization of Iran.

So is it democracy we're really concerned about? Or hegemony?

 

Condemning the unjust violence is destabilizing Iran?

Is that why you have a minimum of 4 evil things the West has done in every post?

 

I'm not saying the US should criticise Iran because the US has a spotlessly clean history of truth and justice. I'm saying the US should criticise Iran because what Iran is doing is wrong. I think those activists want and deserve our support.

There is no rigging in Saudi Arabia because there are no elections.

I don't know what this means. Colonial guilt, exactly the kind you are promoting, kept many countries from criticising anything in Africa. The last decade under Mugabe has been an absolute catastrophe, and what... you want people to shut up about it?

Obama is not OK? What happened?

Thanks

No they don't.

Democracy and an end to Iran's promotion of terrorism and its nuclear programme.

 

Protests of that magnitude and length are never ever allowed in the U.S.

But hey, "condemn" away.

 

The U.S. has got one!

Kick and scream all you want, buddy. Kind of like Bush was a disaster...to the world.

About SA: RIGHT.

I don't know if Iran is doing wrong or not. I know the U.S. media says so, and I am suspicious since Iran is in the way of U.S. imperialist efforts in the region. And if they are, my support does NOTHING!

U.S. destabilization tactics do, on the other hand.

 

I can mention good things too if you want. Heraclitus, Sextus Empiricus, Epicurus, and Epitectus.

There's 4!

France's nuclear energy system, there's five as a boon! :cheers2:

 

Say What ?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gEpl0gTfF0