depression

We always are, brother.

 

Yes, we always are -- until we're not.

Travis

 

Yes!!

I agree.

 

The last person I knew who was walking the line between genius & insanity went on to become a child molester. As much as there may be intellectual insight and perception, the ego grows beyond all proportion because of the inability to internalize the awareness at a deeper level. That requires humility.

 

There are many paths bluesafire. Mine happens to involve a little of the "genius/insanity" dichotomy.

It's also a path that's progressed to the point where fear-based motivations like "not wanting to become a child molester" have ceased to be relevant.

I may require more internalized awareness, but I have enough to know when I encounter someone who is attempting to use spiritual principles for the purposes of "getting a one-up".

But as always bluesafire, I appreciate your posts nonetheless. They challenge me, at least a teeny bit. And I like that.

Travis

 

I despise the romantic ideal of the mad genius. But it's something I internalized early in childhood from my parents and stepfather. It's essentially a Platonic/rationalist prejudice (Platonists are emotionally immature and yet, intellectually capable).

Cheers:cheers2:

Edit: There is an active thread right now in the existentialism where people are freely associating intelligence with unhappiness. I went over there and told them to stop being stupid.

 

I was making an observation, not giving you a reprimand or suggesting you should be something other than what you are.

I find all fear-based motivations irrelevant, but at some point it's good to have a reality check. Of course that's not likely to be something that a megalomaniac would consider. And in all honesty... that is part of the path you walk on as well, don't you agree?

If you think that I'm trying to get a one-up on you then either you're mistaken or I just completely don't see or sense that in myself. I won't argue the perception with you though, but will share my perception that this isn't the motivation or feeling that lies within me.

I want to tell you, Travis, that I have a deep appreciation for the insane genius. I get him. I truly do. The last one I knew.. I adored him. Still do.

I recognize the same in you. You're brilliant. I recognize the truth in your posts. But you lack humility and that will be your downfall, so to speak, because of the inability to let that truth penetrate more deeply. That will trip you up. That's what I see.

Part of the reason why I spoke to you in such a straightforward way before was because I had the sense you could hear me. I don't much care to tiptoe around egos either... but often I do because most people don't respond well to the very blunt and direct way that I CAN be. Hell, even when I do sugarcoat things most people still can't handle honesty very well.

Anyway, I've given you the message about the whole humility thing... perhaps too many times at that. It's a message for me as well, of course. It's my lifelong lesson and one I know intimately. You're a mirror for me, as much as I'm a mirror for you.

 

Yes, emotionally immature... that describes it well. It's when the awareness stays at the intellectual level but fails to penetrate deeper. You could say enlightenment comes when awareness penetrates and fully integrates into the mind/emotion/body experience. Where we live it on every level simultaneously.

Ha! Excellent.

 

Could be. Though I don't like the word enlightenment and favor the simple "happiness." In the words of Leonard Cohen, "That's what enlightenment means: to lighten up." :biggrin:

 

You were suggesting that I should be someone with more humility, were you not?

Not entirely. It is only when I deviate from my path that I become more susceptible to megalomaniacal tendencies.

Fair enough. I may have misperceived you in this instance.

You're absolutely right. If I allow my impulse to indulge my higher knowledge at the expense of the more visceral aspects of my being, which is fundamentally a form of arrogance, I will self-destruct in some way.

I don't know that it's quite that much of a direct proportion -- but yes, I certainly acknowledge that you've exposed some of the darker recesses of my being. And quite effectively as well.

Travis

 

Frankly I agree with you. I don't care much for the word either.. it's been entirely overused and endowed with too much meaning. Happiness, as in peace & joy, well being in general... yeah that works for me.

 

My girl. Simple is best. :cheers2:

 

Hmmm... yes and no. This is one of those things... perhaps a paradox. I can recognize and point out that humility may be lacking and needed in order to be more fully aligned and integrated. But as far as whether you or anyone "should" be more humble... well no. I have no use for "shoulds". That's an efforting movement away from now, based on judgment and resistance to what is. I often see things in a paradoxical way and so I can accept the seemingly opposite manifestations simultaneously. As a matter of fact I find it kind of funny. And if I call you an arrogant ass, just know I'm enjoying you completely as you are and smiling all the while.

 

It's kind of like how an enlightened person (and by enlightened I mean enlightened, not just "lightened up", which is just a watered-down version of a legitimate spiritual principle. More and more common these days it seems -- but that's another conversation ) may refer to themself as "me" -- is there really a "me" there to refer to? No, it's more a formality than anything. I just assumed we were on the same page and that you wouldn't interpret my "should" as being a form of judgement.

But this type of paradox is also one of the pitfalls along the path for people with astute perceptions like yourself. Let's just take your last statement as an example: Is it possible to simultaneously perceive someone as an "arrogant ass" based on an acceptance of what is in a certain moment? Certainly. But only when "what is" is a fragmented form of one's being. As all aspects of one's being are reintegrated and brought to the forefront of one's conscious awareness, what used to be a spontaneous observation now becomes a refuge for the ego.

The underlying issue is this: Does the phrase "arrogant ass" encapsulate judgement of some form? Did it arise in essence from the illusion of separation? If so, then it has to go along with all other forms of resistance to what is. But just maybe not at this very moment in linear time.

Travis

 

Your meaning doesn't escape me but in recent times the word enlightenment and all its uses in the speeeritual community has left a bad taste in my mouth. Discussion of it serves little purpose imho.

I was making a general reference, not alluding to any particular meaning on your part.

The way I see it, an ego manifestation can be recognized without obscurring the totality of the person. Whether such vision is lacking in some way is really not my concern.

What I think you're referring to is predefining someone based on a past (and possibly distorted) perception. And no, I'm not typically in the habit of doing that. (never say never though, lol!) Nor do I assume that what I see in "you" is somehow separate from "me". Believe me when I say that I tell "myself" you're full of shit just as strongly and I dare say more often than I tell anyone else. None of it is actually personal at all. But it would be foolish to fail to recognize the shit when it spews forth.

Anyway, as it happens, too much spiritual discussion has a nasty habit of giving me hives, and so I will now return to a rather intriguing coversation I'm having on Random Thoughts about slinging poo. Just as relevant, if not more honest.

 

That's a regrettable perspective. It's willingness to engage in discussion that will serve to dispel the many misconceptions and false connotations surrounding the nature of enlightenment.

So then I guess its safe to assume that you just patronize people as a matter of course?

A contradiction in terms. An ego manifestation is an obstruction of the totality of a person.

No that's not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to a phenomenon perhaps best articulated by Albert Einstein: A problem can never be solved on the level upon which it was created.

I don't buy it. But with this paragraph you've inadvertantly and yet brilliantly epitomized the spiritual principle that we create that which we resist. In your case, you've created the misperception that you don't take anything personally as a result of your resistence to your own "bullshit".

What's foolish is the failure to see that "shit" is just an ego distortion labeling another ego distortion.

So the fact that conversation of any kind gives you hives is less intriguing than flinging poo, eh? You have an interesting definition of honesty.

Travis

 

Can we change the subject or something please? Or agree to disagree? Anything really.

 

works for me. :cheers2:

 

I simply loved that post ^.
Concise yet enough (for me) to completely understand - and totally agree, for I find myself to be much the same...
except you truly have more patience (or willingness to interact) than I.
Your posts are well thought out and most "enlightening". (ROFLMAO ) - seriously though, hope you have a wonderful day and keep up the good work/words. Lynn

 

I'm with you, Lynn.

Flinging poo, was it? The ultimate reality. LOL God grant us all sufficient enlightenment to effectively and appropriately fling it.

Takes me back to memories of the zoo
chimpanzees flinging poo
what else can anyone do
within the confines of this
prison...

"Prison" LOL

Without "prison," how the hell would we entertain our...self? Boundaries and restraints create the "meaning" of our lives.